You know you're succesful when...

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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby Lujo on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:46 pm

I think I saw two more DD-like games in places like kongregate/armor/onemorelevel. It's probably a good thing as they are really "light" variations which only make DD seem better and more complex while putting the "genre" on the map. It highlights just how good DD is and how much effort went into making it (and well polising, testing and all that)...

And sure you can maliciously design a game - think of all the pure-skinnerbox browser stuff out there. You can also do it unintentionaly, but I'm not going there...
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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby Ottbot on Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:09 pm

dislekcia wrote:Well, if there's designing going on, then it's probably not cloning a specific game ;) Generally clones just straight-up copy as much as possible from an existing game and try to release in a market where the original game is either unavailable or unknown. And yeah, I think that would qualify as maliciousness.


True. Taking someone's idea and pushing it further or taking it in a new direction is one thing, but if you're just trying to capitalize on it, that's not cool.

dislekcia wrote:Also hey, your Depot Dungeons game definitely sounds interesting. What the hell is Megazeux?


Megazeux is an old, old, dos program which featured a basic programming language and the best graphics modified ascii characters have to offer. Here, might be easier to show you... here's Ruin Diver III, one of the few MZX games to gain some popularity outside of the MZX fanbase:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hE9_JJ6BYw

There's a video of Depot Dungeons, too, but the graphics are a bit squished...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHDuQf7YpY4


...y'know I bet we'll see more games like Paper Dungeons popping up. You guys may have kicked off a new genre. Or subgenre, as the case may be.
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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby dislekcia on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:21 am

I dunno about kicking off anything, but people have pointed to DD as being one of the core "roguelike-likes" at the beginning of that naming trend. So maybe we'll see a lot more of those ;)

Personally, I really like seeing other people's takes on the rapid rogue-ing. Mostly because I don't have tons of time to play things anymore anyway, but also it helps me think about things better as a designer: Maybe someone else saw an option that I completely missed due to prior assumptions, etc.
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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby Kuranes on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:24 am

Ooh! And here is another one:

http://www.dungeonfray.com/p/dungeon-fray.html

"Originally when I started coding the game, I wanted it to be a little casual where there is no FoW and monster's don't move at all (like chess, and similar to Desktop Dungeons), making it more like a puzzle/roguelike hybrid."

:D
"Which farm animal is featured prominently in Desktop Dungeons?" "Snakes"
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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby Nandrew on Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:51 am

Still gotta finish this download and try it, but interesting reading about it so far. What strikes me as most intriguing is the fact that he started with a DD-inspired base (like you quoted) but appears to have actually added classic roguelike monster movement and FoW since then. Wondering what sort of game system evolves from that.

I'm surprised that the dev is charging for this, though: I'm not 100% sure about the legalities, but he's definitely using a free sprite set (actually the same that DCSS uses) and I dunno how that interacts with selling stuff for teh_moniez.
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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby Galefury on Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:46 pm

If you're referring to RLTiles, those are public domain, and anyone can use them in any way they want. See http://rltiles.sourceforge.net/

Many of DCSS's tiles (mostly ones that were recently added or changed) are not part of RLTiles, and their licensing is not really clear. But some of the artists have informally expressed that they consider their DCSS tiles public domain. That is not an actual license of course, but it seems unlikely that legal issues would arise from the use of those tiles.

It could of course be considered unprofessional or improper to use freeware sprites in a game that is not free, but in the case of RLTiles it's definitely legal.
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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby Darvin on Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:12 pm

If you're referring to RLTiles, those are public domain

I just checked that link; the language they use is a bit nebulous. In one sentence they state that it's public domain, and in the next they make certain stipulations. If they have released something into the public domain, it means they've relinquished any and all rights to the work, so adding qualifiers is a bit of a contradiction and clouds what their actual intent is. I wouldn't consider it public domain without first talking to a lawyer.

Given the way they word themselves, I think what they're after is a creative commons attribute share alike (CC BY-SA) license. If they truly want to go public domain a CC0 creative commons license is more effective since there are some jurisdictions where a work actually cannot be designated as public domain prematurely. Either would be a lot more legally clear than the small blurb they have posted there.
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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby Galefury on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:07 pm

I'm sure they're not going to sue anyone. :P

Also, the way it is worded, they *ask* for credit, but don't strictly demand it. I don't know what "please" means in lawyer-speak, though.
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Re: You know you're succesful when...

Postby Darvin on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:18 pm

I'm sure they're not going to sue anyone

I'm aware of that, but from a legal standpoint it's a massive risk. Copyright damages for willful infringement are positively massive, and for a smaller company it's essentially a corporate death sentence (and if you haven't correctly set up a corporate veil you're in serious trouble). There are many people who simply won't take that risk, however small it may be. Because copyright enforcement in the digital setting is patchwork at best, people can and do get away with flying under the radar. Never mistake that for being in the legal clear; when copyright law bites it can be ruinous.

Nandrew's point stands; this guy is on questionable legal grounds if he doesn't have solid licensing for every single third party asset he's using. He probably will never be called on it, but that's a risk he's choosing to take.

I don't know what "please" means in lawyer-speak, though.

Lawyers can spend hours arguing over a single word. This is probably one of those such words, which is to say I wouldn't attribute any particular meaning to it. However, the statement "the fourth line is optional" is probably more important than the word "please". If it was necessary to state that the fourth line is optional, this implies the rest is mandatory, which implies that some rights were reserved.
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