Trade Opportunities

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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby Lujo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:06 pm

Ok, I just managed silver finaly (many tries) with early wonnafyt and early mysterea into mystic balance, the small mana pendant, the -10% orb to take that much health off, and then pretty much straight fireballs (with one lucky dodge at some point, but otherwise had a bit more than enough). Two hits of magic, and I picked up flames at some point during the boss fight (earlier than it was wise, but turned out good). Nasty level, very intelligent way of making the tinker fight without his regular shennanigans.

Way too scummy, unless, as Avatar said, we've been missing something obvious. Wouldn't mind seeing it made a bit easier, as it really is harder than most golds.

Now to see what gold looks like after such a silver.


EDIT: Gold looks awesome though.
Last edited by Lujo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby The Avatar on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:10 pm

On the topic of class challenge difficulty, almost everything is good, but there are still a few exceptions. Of course, I could be totally misplacing these, but I found Warlord Gold, Bloodmage Gold, and Paladin Gold to be significantly harder than the rest. No doubt Tinker Silver and Gold belong on this list, and I haven't looked at the buffed crusader ones.
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby sitnaltax on Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:50 am

I like this changelog, especially the new Tinker dungeons and the Vicious PQI money buff. Right now I'm a little discouraged by a couple crashes on good runs, but I'll try more later on in the week.
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby The Avatar on Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:55 am

Yeah, the crashes are a bit miserable.

My two main qualms with the tinker challenges (though I enjoyed them) is that they are both incredibly luck based and too hard compared to other same level challenges.
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby Lujo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:43 pm

Ok, gold is awesome, except I still haven been able to do it and I sank quite a bit of time into it. I've been trying goblins and maybe something else is the way to go (dwarves might actually be able to fight stuff early on), but I feel like I haven't been able to do it in 20+ tries.

There ought to be subdungeons in there. I mean, I get the "no class features makes things challenging" thing, but then it isn't Tinker challenges - it's guard challenges!

The gold one takes too much luck in too many ways - if there were 2-3 subdungeons in there (one including the boss, one including... something or the other) which you could reliably find, then you could save some exploration for the boss fight. The way it is now, you can waste way too much before you run into anything usefull, and you can't fight anything because of the pretty high numbers on everything. Plus, there isn't any "look for subdungeons" feature featuring, and it's really big on tinkers.

Can we have a "secret stash subdungeon with something usefull in it" and the "boss subdungeon" which dissapears once you enter it and talk to the boss so we can at least find the boss reliably every time? And possibly a small reduction in difficulty (unless there is somethign to figure out which we haven't yet)?



EDIT: Ok, got it on the millionth try, after trying pretty much everything else I could with a goblin. For some reson it didn't occur to me to fight (and spike somewhat) other guys first and fight the gobbo once I outlevel him and have first strike. It went well, but I did score a keg of health, dwarven gauntlets, GETINARE and witchalok pendant (wouldn't've been able to kill the last form without it). I'm still of the opinion that it's too hard, too cramped and too random. Would love to find the boss in a subdungeon and fireball in another.
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby The Avatar on Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:05 am

Hmm... Even still, the boss drops are too random. You could get a useless burn salve or the Amulet of Yendor (probably the best possible drop). It would be nice to standardize what he drops, just make the order random. I like the idea of a fireball subdungeon, and also a subdungeon where the merchants the fighter chased off are hiding. They could be selling three items (Fine sword, Pendant of Health, and Pendant of Mana?) for exorbitant prices. Then we would have a use for all of the provided scrolls.
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby Lujo on Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:20 am

If it contained a subdungeon with all the glyphs for sale ("What, the fighter took everything, glyphs is all we got!") it would be cool :D

And I think the drops are standardised. The pool is just bigger than 10 items. I've played what feels like 20-30 tries and some things were deffinitely rather common. I saw more elite items than I ever see in shops for one thing...
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby The Avatar on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:56 pm

That would make sense, just because it's not weighting the randomizer away from elites. I've gotten far more than just 10 items. All 6 potions, both kegs, the gauntlets, boots, gloves, and wraps, fire heart, crystal ball, witchalock pendant, blue bead, Yendor, Zot, fine sword, amulet of health, amulet of mana, bloody sigil, badge of courage, dragon soul, piercing wand, platemail, mage plate, vampiric blade, whurragaburgl, trisword, stone sigil, agnostics collar, and the venom blade. There's probably a few I forgot. That's almost the whole item pool.

Nice idea on the glyph shops.
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby Lujo on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:14 pm

Well if there were a whole bunch of subdungeons where you get a glyph for 5 gold in each it'd be a nice way to give you "scout: glyph" and put otherwise useless gold to use. And showcase subdungeon scouting.
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Re: Trade Opportunities

Postby Naoya on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:08 pm

HOLY $HIT
I DID THE SILVER FINALLY
Never again no converting \o/
.... seriously, with the exception of monk gold (which still eludes me), its been a long time since a challenge has been that... well, challenging. Personally, I found it harder than some of the golds even.

I generally found it very hard to get my foot of the ground; most enemys are pretty tough without some leverage, which, in the case of a tinker, would be shops. The itempool, however, contains very few items that actually help you. And it's in no way guaranteed that those or glyphs spawn near you...

Tinker gold looks awesome, but it looks a bit luck dependant to me. I like the idea - I guess this is what the player would look like to monsters. Save for the missing death protection.
The fighter is pretty much the source of what your class features normally do - so if he spawns on the other end of the map, you're screwed.
I like Lujos ideas.

Overall a good set of challenges... save for the difficulty/luck dependance. I think they do a really good job explaining the tinker.
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