Beta update: screw you, monks

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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby Darvin on Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:22 pm

Monk was always about balanced for non-human classes; the only real problem was the human monk, which got too much synergy out of the human glyph conversion essentially removing his primary weakness. This change simply forces you to use difference race/preparations. It may leave the monk slightly weaker overall, but it doesn't change the problem.

The gods are now pretty horrible. Aside from some very narrow situations I don't even want to touch Mysteria, Glowing Guardian, or Dracul. I'd say that it's now so bad that alpha Jehora Jeheyu (the distant third to PM and GG in alpha, IMO) is stronger than anyone in the current lineup, with the possible exception of Taurog.
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby q 3 on Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:36 pm

Not sure what I think about the deity changes, although I'm sure the so far negative reactions are subject to change as we work out new strategies. Mysteria's mana boon is basically now +3 MP for 60 piety where before it was +5 MP for 90 piety, which is a fair trade, I think. That's assuming you use Weakening to remove the magic resist - I'm skeptical of the increased magic resistance she adds, because if anything it skews things even more in favor of melee fighters over fireball mages, when probably the opposite is what needed to happen.

Glowing Guardian's Sanctify now seems pretty silly, since it's not worth much piety, it's not worth spending piety for what is usually not very much exp, and Absolution is looking a little bit more attractive as an alternative (but probably still not worth it). Cleansing was rarely useful in the first place, since by the time I'd like to remove negative effects I've usually burned through my piety anyway, but then I suppose that means the increasing cost won't affect too much; the initial cost could probably stand to be reduced, though. And honestly I didn't think Protection needed any changes, so this seems like a bit too much of a nerf - now at endgame, if I have 50+ piety and am worshiping GG I think now I'll be much more likely to just convert to a different deity so I can use potions. If these changes stick, GG needs better alternatives for gaining piety - I think increasing the gain from killing high level enemies would be a good start.

Dracul is potentially going to be more interesting as an early game deity with his much improved resistance boost and the changes to lifesteal, and slightly less useful at the end now that his heal is nerfed. Seems just about right to me. I think his MP boon is probably a little overnerfed, but I'll have to see how easy or hard it is to gain piety from him first.

Taurog's increasing cost for death protection makes me think I'm going to just dump him for Dracul even earlier than usual, especially since healing is a lot more useful to his followers than death protection (why did you spend all that piety on increased resistances if you're just going to take deathblows?). I think what needed to be increased was the piety costs for his sword and shield, since they're currently easy to obtain and tend to be game-breaking at low levels.
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby Deadman on Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:46 pm

Gotta say I'm very disappointed by the new trisword, the old concept of it was fun and funny. Now it feels somewhat generic. It is to the whurrgarbl what orcs are to humans (which is ironic, you'd think the one with a name like whurrgarbl would be the orc item).
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby Darvin on Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:29 am

The old Trisword was horrendously broken on Rogues. A level 1 rogue with a Trisword could typically knock out a level 4 monster right out the door. The bottom line is that the trisword gave you a horrendously broken opening game at the cost of a dead-weight inventory slot in the end-game, which is just an insanely good deal.

New trisword is bland, but a must-have for monks so I'm keeping it in my locker.
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby Deadman on Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:52 am

Oh I'm not saying the old trisword is fine and the new one is crap, far from it.
It's just... well would've preferred if it had kept it's flavour but still be balanced somehow. The idea of putting all your eggs in one three-sworded basket is a fun one. It certainly needed some kind of balance, but now... it's just that item you take when you have a Monk (though it still benefits rogues and beserkers).
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby fall_ark on Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:09 am

This is how I picture Monk now:
Image
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby Deadman on Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:13 am

I'm not sure what that image is meant to convey...
Is he/she making weapons appear out of thin air or making them dissolve in midair?
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby fall_ark on Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:49 am

Deadman wrote:I'm not sure what that image is meant to convey...
Is he/she making weapons appear out of thin air or making them dissolve in midair?


Oh it's a FSN(tvTropes link) reference. It's just a guy who attacks people by summoning dozens of weapons. Kind of like how Monk kind of requires as many weapons as possible as of right now.
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby Deadman on Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:12 am

hehe I see.
Well I did the first monk quest easily thanks to Taurog, but I can't comment on any further because I found myself unable to leave an area without hitting my way through corrosiveness, and it actually bugs me so much I quit the mission and have given up on the whole thing... for now.
I know I'm over-reacting but that's just how much the plants really annoy me.
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Re: Beta update: screw you, monks

Postby TigerKnee on Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:44 am

Man, you will HATE the slime pit if you quit at the 2nd monk quest.

I beat that mission with Dracul abuse but I have no idea how anyone is supposed to do it without.

Seriously, having missions entirely full of weakeners is so annoying.

As for the Martyr wraps... it's good for Monks I guess. I don't think anyone else is going to use it though.
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