First 8 gold challenges.

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Re: First 8 gold challenges.

Postby dislekcia on Mon May 27, 2013 11:40 pm

Yup ;)

He remains the only non-spambot we've ever banned though, so I think we're doing okay. Plus I don't think he's a troll per-se, he's just really bad at listening and incredibly entitled.
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Re: First 8 gold challenges.

Postby Bloggorus on Tue May 28, 2013 12:28 am

dislekcia wrote:
An anti-item-scumming system already exists right now: The different item class preparations in the Bazaar. Even if you don't get the items you want to veto in your first run, you can easily bring out and veto items that "clogged" your shops this run to pretty-much guarantee that you'll find that specific item next run. Meta vetos.

Yeah, I know it's not elegant. But I guess we don't view going into a dungeon and, y'know, interacting with it in some way as an actual crime against life on earth.

Actually it is rather elegant, because it lets the ridiculously obsessive players have a large degree of control over a random system without removing the randomness that makes the game great.

It might help if there was more information on what items the bazaar preps get you. I for one am always perplexed by what 'quest items' means. A codex entry or item list would probably clarify what can be done with these preps.

Case in point: Waldo walking around stomping stuff. I'm pretty sure his big 'strategy' wasn't some kind of exploit but extremely high level gaming of the shops, veto slots and bazaar. I'm talking spreadsheets and probability tables to reduce scumming.

So it is possible to virtually eliminate scumming as long as you put the effort in, like many of the great old-school games with incredibly high skill ceilings.

If you grew up milk-fed on Call of Duty and Assassins Credd, it might seem strange to play a game that you are not able to 'clock' simply by putting enough time in.
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Re: First 8 gold challenges.

Postby Fran on Fri May 31, 2013 4:29 pm

Personally, I think the veto slots and the locker slots are fine as they are. I'm not willing to put that much time into the game that I have to scum for anything, so my solution is simply to play the dungeons that don't require scumming.
And I don't think thats devaluing the game, because I can have just as much fun with those dungeons.

After all, I think for me the most fun in the game is had when you solve random problems that show up during the run. Of course it's nice to win, but if there is no risk in loosing due to having a guaranteed perfect set up, then whats the point?
So I think the lockers essentially do the thing they are supposed to - derandomize the game as you progress through it in order to have better chances at the harder dungeons.

I see them as a gift from the mighty devs as a little comfort for the frustration the game brings up at times instead of a given right.
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Re: First 8 gold challenges.

Postby booooooze on Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:17 am

I generally agree. I'm not sure why the devs are so hard set against a mechanism for elite players to be able to access any item they want, but I'm even more unsure why Lujo is unable to restrain himself any time the topic comes up (still have him blocked, I only read snippets of his textwalls as quoted by others).

Go back and play the alpha if you really want to know about scumming...
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Re: First 8 gold challenges.

Postby The Avatar on Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:41 am

Oh dear. That was awful.

Blocking Lujo seems a bit extreme (except when it comes to lockers, in which case it might be worth it), since he has put a lot of good time and helpful advice and suggestion into the forums. It's your choice though, so feel free to ignore me.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at!
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Re: First 8 gold challenges.

Postby booooooze on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:48 pm

It goes way back, to when he was first railing against the Monk.

I'll click through to read some, but it does make scanning the forum much easier. And if there's a discussion going on, people will generally quote relevant snippets, so it all works out.
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