Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby Naoya on Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:02 pm

Checkem wrote:A little unrelated but since we're talking about shop item scumming here, the items you get from beating the vicious (and the dragon soul) dungeons can only be used in-dungeon if you prep them from the lockers correct?

And also, dragon souls don't stack do they?


The Dragon Soul can be unlocked and appears in the shop pool if you complete the CO quest.
But yeah, Vicious rewards + Faboulous Treasure are only useable by lockering them.
Not sure about stacking, but I think they do - most items actually stack if you happen to get them twice. (2 Midas Gloves is fun with TT, if you happen to get that lucky.)

Always wished vicious rewards would have their own kind of locker - theyre usually too strong for anything below vicious, so I hardly use them - but I keep them just in case I might need them, as relockering them is a pain.
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby Bloggorus on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:19 am

The way i see it, adding an infinite 'Johnny's locker' is the same thing as being handed a cheat code or hex editor.

Although it may be fun, you are basically declaring "I am bored with the RNG of this game and want experience the game in a permanently different way".

Although some players may think they are prepared for it, from my experience the thrill of getting everything at your fingertips never outweighs the disappointment of having the old way of plying the game ruined for you.

Basically, once you unlock pandora's box you can never go back.

EDIT: of course, I would use this feature in a heart beat, but that's because ive seen most of what this game can offer content-wise. The final frontier for me is playing around with crazy classes and beating stupidly hard dungeons (although i still don's succeed).

I've done my time, but i still want to milk what i can out of DD. it's that good a fundamental system that you don;t want the ride to end. it has the same mechanical addictiveness as the best-balanced FPS or puzzle game, where you don't need bells and whistles and storylines to make the game good; they are just curve-balls to keep players on their toes.
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:53 am

I agree with you to a certain extent. The key point is making it available after you've done EVERYTHING in the game (all quests and dungeons beaten).
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby dislekcia on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:35 am

The key question is this: Why should we delay getting the game to thousands of people who won't enjoy this feature, many of whom would actually find it detrimental to gameplay, when there are other, much more impactful things that we still need to finish doing?

If there's a significant need for something like this AFTER release, maybe we'll be able to add it then. But right now, it's a terrible decision in terms of usage of our time - even if we could figure out a way to implement something like this without it feeling like utter crap for the rest of the game. You guys are right - it is the sort of functionality that gets built in some strange way to support a small group of people with a very specific problem.

Going back to MtG: I'm not a huge fan of the way the game constantly forces players to pay for new cards, but have you seen how quickly the acceptance of printed cards destroys a player community? I've watched that happen twice now, years apart, and it's always surprising how quickly people just lose interest in the game.
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby The Avatar on Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:35 pm

I'm glad you posted that. Most of us (I assume), are not professional programmers and don't know how DD is coded, so we lack any idea as to how long it will take.
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby squirrelnest on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:13 pm

I want to reply to the topic name more so than its content. I sure hope they do. This game still blows me away.

Thanks guys.

Slightly more on topic, in my experience, the problem with proxy Magic is that people no longer take the time to learn the more subtle elements of the decks they are printing out, then move on to a new one much too quickly. Even simple seeming decks such a RDW have some very "overlookable" elements the pilot needs to learn. And if you print out 43-Land and hour before the play session? Well, that's going to be a mess.
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby Abraxas on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:47 pm

The Avatar wrote:I'm glad you posted that. Most of us (I assume), are not professional programmers and don't know how DD is coded, so we lack any idea as to how long it will take.


I think it's less of an issue of programming and more one of design.
For the veterans who want to have infinite lockers, it's easy to think of an implementation like the suggested one as something optional and mostly inconsequential.
However, for many players, having access to a mode where you have an infinite locker but get no rewards can very well make the "real" game and locker feel lacking and limiting. Just having such a point of comparison can make the whole locker mechanic feel like a negative aspect.
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby Bloggorus on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:07 pm

I am a professional programmer (to an extent) and I can tell you that it's got nothing to do with design choices and everything to do with risk analysis.

People often get angry with programmers and IT people because they never seem to give a straight answer: it's because even the simplest request presents an element of risk that things are more complicated. Sure it's fine to dick around trying things in the initial stages, but when it comes to crunch time, you need to be able to rely on your base code being rock solid.

You need a plan, and you need to stick to it, because even the tiniest deviation can end up eating days of your time with unforeseen complications and bugs that you con;t backtrack because the whole project is steaming ahead to quickly.

From the response from players, everyone agrees that an infinite locker would be worthwhile spending the time to implement. However, taking the time to make what seems like a minor change this late in the piece puts the whole project at risk, adding weeks or months to a title that many people have been waiting patiently for years for.

The best thing QCF can do is release the final game and it's code to the community. There are many fans, including myself, who would be happy to contribute their time to whip out an infinite locker mod.
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby Waldo0 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:04 am

I just use Hobbler's Hold with Human or Goblin Transmuter to fill my lockers or vetoes.

Transmuter starts with LEMMISH, so he can easily find the shops.


If you are Veteran, I don't think Vicious maps would problems, because he will have a solid combo to clear the maps easily.

In addition, the veteran would be having enough lockers 7~9 to store the vicious' items.


I think Locker system is one of funny contents to attract new players in this game(and, I still like it.).

"Waldo0 : I can store some cool items in my treasure locker which I got in the dungeons!"


My favorite locker item is Fabulous Treasure.

I don't use it a lot. but, when I use it, It make me to feel I'm rich person who can buy everything in the shops! LOL

However, If I have an infinite locker, then the Fabulous Treasure would be a just one of normal items which I don't need any effort to get it.
Last edited by Waldo0 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Does QCF understand how much fun DD is?

Postby Lujo on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:33 am

Waldo0 wrote:I just use Hobbler's Hold with Human or Goblin Transmuter to fill my lockers or vetoes.

Transmuter starts with LEMMISH, so he can easily find the shops.


If you are Veteran, I don't think Vicious maps would problems, because he will have a solid combo to clear the maps easily.

In addition, the veteran would be having enough lockers 6~9 to store the vicious' items.


Except that never was the issue. We already have an infinite locker, and a way to scum up whatever composition of vetoed items. You in particular are the patron saint of it, from what I saw. Whatever anyone (but sidestepper) thinks the whole debate started because the way it is implemented right now, the way you just described, is 100% effective, but costs real life time instead of in-game currency. (And, well, the devs trying to dispute THAT, which is mind-boggling since it's a fact rather than an opinion).

What waldo described there is the most sensible and no-nonsense way to play the game if you want results in a realistic timeframe:
Veto slots = ideal setups mechs to be optimized through transmuter scumming.
Locker Slots = repository for items you cant afford to let go in order not to have to fish too long.
Vicious Dungeons = venues to get the top items through optimized combos (routines).

All that = infinite locker, and easily customizable veto slots. And it's true at any point in the game, really.

EDIT: And before anyone sayes it's my opinnion or prefference - it's not. I set out to make a mystera tutorial - I fire up a vicious token run and pick a fighter with only mytera and magnet fireball prepped...

dislekcia wrote:Going back to MtG: I'm not a huge fan of the way the game constantly forces players to pay for new cards, but have you seen how quickly the acceptance of printed cards destroys a player community? I've watched that happen twice now, years apart, and it's always surprising how quickly people just lose interest in the game.


Err, over here it turned into cube drafts instead of everybody having to play net tourney decks only a select few could rally afford and kept walking away with all the prizes? Our community crumbled twice before we said "f**k y**" to the concept, and made out own printed draft set...We had plenty of cheeze before mind you, what we lacked was room to explore and play below "all rares" level... And this happened spontaneously, before we ever saw a "cube" called that...
Last edited by Lujo on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:45 am, edited 6 times in total.
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