About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby ChasGB on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:14 pm

berpdreyfuss wrote:I really liked your mystera tutorial! I would still like to see more basic god tutorials, if you're looking for something to come up with :)


Along these lines, and tied into the other thread, why don't you (Lujo) try your hand at some god tutorials / sidestepper-esque annotated deity playthroughs for the wiki? Some art may later change but since the devs have put balancing adjustments on hold the fundamental lessons won't change.

You've often lamented that the game doesn't do a great job at teaching the gods. I agree. The puzzles seemed too narrow and situational with so little tolerance for deviation that the puzzles were just that, puzzles, and not lessons. Case in point, I'm now where I've unlocked two monster classes yet I've only started dabbling in EM in the past few days, and I've never used JJ more than twice. With the exception of your MA video, however, you tend to be cryptic with your advice on actually using the gods.

You've got a golden opportunity to do something about the deity learning curve. So what's stopping you? Fill that wiki up!
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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:32 pm

ChasGB wrote:
berpdreyfuss wrote:I really liked your mystera tutorial! I would still like to see more basic god tutorials, if you're looking for something to come up with :)


Along these lines, and tied into the other thread, why don't you (Lujo) try your hand at some god tutorials / sidestepper-esque annotated deity playthroughs for the wiki? Some art may later change but since the devs have put balancing adjustments on hold the fundamental lessons won't change.

You've often lamented that the game doesn't do a great job at teaching the gods. I agree. The puzzles seemed too narrow and situational with so little tolerance for deviation that the puzzles were just that, puzzles, and not lessons. Case in point, I'm now where I've unlocked two monster classes yet I've only started dabbling in EM in the past few days, and I've never used JJ more than twice. With the exception of your MA video, however, you tend to be cryptic with your advice on actually using the gods.

You've got a golden opportunity to do something about the deity learning curve. So what's stopping you? Fill that wiki up!


Well, tbh, time is the biggest issue. I've got a Drac showcase taped - it's an easy run, but it could serve much like the mystera tutorial. Maybe better, maybe worse. I'm also embarassed about rambling for 5 minutes before I get to the point :( I'll upload it one of these days (computer downtime is the biggest time issue).

As far as the wiki is concerned, well, as sidestepper said, brevity isn't really my thing. I did the TT page (and I'm sure it's lacking something booooze mentioned, but I can't remember what). It's an essay. :( I can type stuff up, but as long as noone edits it it's gonna be pretty useless.

Plus - I'm really hesitant to speak with authority on the gods. God knows what I don't know about them. Plus, as speedball mentioned in the other thread wiki (and guides and vids) aren't something everyone will check out - this stuff really ought to be fixed in game. I don't mind doing it afterwards (and some of it in between), when I'm sure it's working better in the game itself.
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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:42 pm

I've thought about doing a "Bible Bootcamp" series on the forum, but as others have mentioned,it takes time to do stuff like that. Part of the problem is that the gods are complex, and you'd have to do multiple demos for each god to cover even the most basic uses. At the very least, you'd want to do a "find and join right away" demo and a "joined late" demo. Even this doesn't work for all of the gods. Earthmother has lots of non-overlapping strategies, JJ is similarly versatile, etc.
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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:26 pm

Sidestepper wrote:Earthmother has lots of non-overlapping strategies, JJ is similarly versatile, etc.


This is what made me hesitant to do god tutorials apart from Mystera. Mystera's incredibly straigforward (and a bit too good at it). Earthmother has uses that range from gamebreaking to nice and casual, and comboing her up with items such as the Codex would take an hour-long guide in and off itself...

We really ought to do a "God spike" guide - a concise list of how you can lean on a god for a piety fueled spike (or piety enabled one). Could make a nice short page on the wiki about it. Every god except JJ has one, really.

One other thing we never did was the subdungeon roundup. The problem, besides time investment, is that they're sort of ment to be all over the place, and we have absolutely no clue what the devs intended for any of them and getting the devs to do anything with any conclusions we might agree upon could also be a fools errand. They're pretty much all ok, but they might do with a combthrough...
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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby booooooze on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:52 pm

Hard to say that TT page is useless. Perhaps a new player might not be able to appreciate all of the information conveyed, but I think it covers everything pretty well.
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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby Lujo on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:26 am

booooooze wrote:Hard to say that TT page is useless. Perhaps a new player might not be able to appreciate all of the information conveyed, but I think it covers everything pretty well.


Speaking of that - you had some gimmick that was supposed to be added and I can't for the life of me remeber what it was. And it was a good point, that much I remember. Can you look at it one more time and see what I missed?
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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby booooooze on Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:13 pm

Lujo wrote:Speaking of that - you had some gimmick that was supposed to be added and I can't for the life of me remeber what it was. And it was a good point, that much I remember. Can you look at it one more time and see what I missed?


I'll take a look, but I can't imagine what it would have been.
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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby booooooze on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:30 am

Perhaps it was the TT-Crusader synergy?
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Re: About the "scumming for gold" cfoncept

Postby Lujo on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Possibly. Someone should probably add Crusader to the list of guys who sinergize. Also, I remember a lot of folks (comparatively) asking about Transmuters and Crusaders in the "how are they supposed to work". Maybe their pages need updating too?

And I still owe dislekcia answers to his questions on the actual topic (rl got really hectic and I want to think my way through writing those).
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