Reward for completion

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Reward for completion

Postby berpdreyfuss on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:47 pm

I just played some runs in the alpha and am surprised how rewarding it was to try to complete dungeons with every class. I played the crypt and with every class the max gold of my "kingdom" goes up by 5.
Somehow gathering gold in the beta which is the reward for beating the dungeon with a new class isn't that rewarding. For gold I'd rather beat a burning dungeon.
To complete a dungeon with every class just for completion's sake doesn't appeal to me (Although for other people it may be just fine).

Any ideas out there how to change this?
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Lujo on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:34 pm

Eh, any non-cosmetic reward makes you more powerful, and the game is pretty much biased towards the player as long as you improve until you're good enough to take on the hardest dungeons. Any cosmetic reward boils down to a variation on the current completion class badge ratings.

I had an idea ages ago that tied the idea of completionism with the storylines for each direction. If all of the dungeons started at a high difficulty but got their difficulty reduces by completing the lesser dungeons with more classes it would be interesting. If the devs wanted to keep the original structure of the game, they could apply it only to the vicious dungeons - make them damn near impossible to begin with, but make completing the regular dungeons reduce their difficulty. For example, completing every directional with all guild classes would get the monster difficulty down to the current vicious, completing with all church classes would give you your altars/piety gain back, completing with thieves would give you gold/shops and completing with explorers would give you subdungeons. It's just an idea, god knows if it's feasable, and unlocking the monster classes would be an obvious pain.

But other than that, I can only think of the locker/veto system to give more meaning to gold once it starts to pile up (not going there).
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Raz on Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:53 am

This has been hinted at before from different perspectives I believe..
Kingdom of One wrote on Mon May 13, 2013:
".. The overall progression seems a little off. I think the kingdom progression needs to feel more epic. It feels like a missed opportunity as is. The introduction of new features works well enough."

I think the Epic above may refer to meaning/feeling of accomplishment. Progression of the initial "settlement" seems to go VERY fast without much recognizable effort .
All 1st tier classes can get unlocked before you see the actual adventure map (and actually feel forced rather than earned because of the gold cap).
The Elves & Dwarves waltz in together on their own (didn't think they got along for some reason...felt unearned also, what is their trigger?) with seemingly no effort on the players part.
Before you know it the kingdom is full of all sorts of buildings and the player may feel overwhelmed by all the stuff that shows up so soon with relatively little actual play.
Requiring more effort to unlock quests/upgrade buildings might help slow this down and make these achievements feel more "Epic".

All 4 directional quests unlocked simultaneously. Don't know if this was from (feeling forced by the gold cap) upgrading all class buildings beforehand, but presented even more options with unachievable quests (without further upgrades to kingdom class buildings) at an early point in the game.
Another wrench in this is that you only need to beat the directionals with 2 classes, as opposed to the 3 still required for Beginners Brigade, leading players to skip learning the other classes and just head west (fighter feels familiar at this point..) although the 1000 gold to upgrade for the second class for directional quest completion does force SOME other playing.
Perhaps Beginners Brigade should be completed before the directionals appear (giving players some experience with different classes before choosing a direction).
Went west with fighter, just need 107 gold to get berzerker to check off the western quest requirement and forge west with noting but fighter experience and ALOT of upgrades available to choose from.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Bloggorus on Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:37 am

Too late in the dev cycle to change game progression in a big way by now, so i would say that late-stage rewards are all you will see change.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the lockers and bank upgrades moved to be dungeon completion rewards as well. The current gold rewards were hastily implemented but no one much complained about them when they came in because MOAR GOLD!

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers on how many players are completing dungeons completely over chasing quests and willing to bet that most don't bother until late game.

I know that personally, i would have found things a lot easier if i had been given more incentive to play with all the classes on a dungeon instead of hopping around and hugging a certain class-race combo.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby booooooze on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:37 am

(well, a goblin assassin can beat anything...)
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby flap on Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:12 am

early kingdom development felt too quick and too random for me too... I would have liked to play longer with a much more basic kingdom, and be given some hints about what wonderfull races/class I might find later, to let the desire grow.

In alpha, the amount of work requird to unlock any fancy monster class was very clear and gave a good long term goal. While here, I just need to play and most things will unlock by themselves.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby berpdreyfuss on Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:13 am

Yes, I had the same feeling when I started from the beginning. I would have liked to spend some more time in the early dungeons. Maybe some unlocks, like dungeons and building upgrades, could be unlocked by completing a dungeon with all classes.
I like the idea by Lujo about "developing" the vicious dungeons because it involves a step by step progression with every class building.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby dislekcia on Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:48 am

Y'know, it's really hard to balance people's desire for MORE MORE MORE (which is what you were all shouting when the beta started) with this kind of sentiment now. When the beta first came out, dungeons couldn't be unlocked fast enough, we've actually slowed down progression quite a lot since then.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby berpdreyfuss on Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:04 pm

I get that, and it may just be a matter of taste. And new dungeons are always interesting to try, so I understand the desire for getting more fast.
I was just looking for a better reason to go back to dungeons with every class. Kingdom development speed might be a topic apart from that.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Raz on Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:24 pm

Previous play experience (3-4 kingdoms played out to vicious dungeons) has probably skewed my perspective.
Not complaining, just observing- Love the game now, nothing NEEDS to change in my mind. :)
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