Special Edition Character Now Available!

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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby Kingdom of One on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:52 am

Yeah, but if the run I had is possible with no familiarity with the class/god interactions then it's hard to imagine this not getting absurd.

If the top end can stomp too easily, and is not too unlikely to happen (I imagine there are hidden synergies in a lot of the seemingly bad gods/items setups), then that is what will define the class for vicious dungeon runs.

If there's one thing I've learnt about this game it's that it's always possible to do something crazier/more powerful and if something feels like it can be broken in some way, then it can be and there are still 100 new ways to break it that you didn't even think of yet.

I think this class will teach a lot of people (including me) how useful killing popcorn at early levels can be and that this is not always a cardinal sin. With the use of them for level spiking gone, the main benefits of popcorn left are curse reduction/life-steal/activating burning/piety farming and with this class you actively want to do the last one of these as early as possible.
The massive downside to early munching is that you can go over a level threshold too early, making the exp you get from killing higher lvl monsters decrease drastically - but really, with the right strategy this isn't that much of a problem and it's possible to gain a few exp without it ever breaking a level threshold.

I think the class will also teach people even more about the power of the gods. Being able to farm piety and then spend it on a different deity so easily leads to so many powerful combinations.
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby Kingdom of One on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:09 pm

Just another thought from reading this thread, I don't see why you'd ever want to attempt a boss at a low level with this character.
It seems way better to get as many levels as you can so that you're stronger (and therefore waste less resources) when fighting a boss.
The main reason to fight them early is to use level-up spikes efficiently and save some for later boss fights, but the need for that is gone.

I realise a lot of my thoughts presuppose that you don't need to waste resources getting exp from much higher lvl enemies. My go-to strategy for most runs is to use all means necessary to generate extra exp, without wasting resources to kill tricky things, so this class plays very naturally for me. It's probably much more awkward if you're used to different strategies.
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby Lujo on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:58 pm

Well, playing this guy with a prepped balanced dagger and without it are two very different things.
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby The Avatar on Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:55 pm

Even with preps though you just occasionally hit runs where you cannot win. Lack of food and all that. I used to like WONAFYT, but now it's my new favorite glyph!
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I speak chaos.
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby Lujo on Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:49 pm

Yep on both counts. I used to like wheytwut - but I can't bloody find one at all :D
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby Darvin on Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:54 pm

Having played around with him a bit, here are my thoughts on each deities for the Goatperson:

Mystera - decent; her boons aren't very useful for the Goatperson, but she's an excellent piety farm and it's fairly easy to avoid her penalty with the constant swapping.

Taurog - decent, particularly as a piety farm; I haven't yet found myself grabbing his boons, but if I get a Taurog/Dracul combo you can bet resist stacking is on the menu. The penalty for using glyphs can be painful, though, given your dependence on fireball at low levels.

Earthmother - usually bad; unless IMAWAL randomly spawns on the map it's very difficult to earn piety with her, sharply reducing her utility. Aside from southern swamp or western jungle, avoiding punishment is trivial so she's seldom harmful.

Glowing Guardian - decent. Cleansing is very useful for the Goatperson, and protection plays to his strengths, but the other boons are impractical for various reasons so he's of limited value overall. Converting food is easy piety if you've got extras.

Jehora Jeheyu - nasty; poison and mana burn often force you to chug potions at uncontrollable intervals. I haven't had it happen yet (thankfully), but a late-game health or mana drain could be game-ending. His boons are very good, but his presence can really drain your potion reserves.

Binlor - decent; similar to Earthmother, if you don't have a form of wall-breaking he can be impossible to earn piety with. Fortunately there are more forms of wall-breaking than petrification, and if you can earn 35 piety from another deity you can always buy ENDISWAL directly from him. He otherwise works very well for the Goatperson.

Tikki Tooki - great, but risky; the punishment scheme of Tikki Tooki makes him dangerous to be on the board; with the food mechanic it's easy to get stuck in a no-win scenario early on. However, his piety farming abilities are great and his boon selection is exceptional, and the Goatperson's need to occasionally chew on popcorn early on means that with careful planning you can really get a lot of value whenever TT comes up in rotation.

Dracul - awesome; this is the best deity for the Goatperson, bar none. Oh sure, blood hunger will piss off two other members of the roster and blood tithe requires you to tread carefully (literally!) if you bounce to GG, but he is exceptionally well-suited to the religion-jumping. The ability to do things he hates (kill undead, quaff healing potions, use CYDSTEPP) when you're not worshiping him while garnering all the benefits of persistent Dracul worship are simply enormous. Since level-up heals aren't as meaningful for the Goatperson, Blood Curse is far less damaging than usual.
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby Lujo on Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:04 am

I'm not sure about this but I take humility from GG. It's bascaly an XP gain boosting boon and the goat loves those. It does reduce fireball damage, I know, but somehow I feel it's beneficial. Funnily enough, blood curse is also awesome :)

Also I tend to grab mystic balance from mystera (especially good if JJ is on the board for his mana boost), and Chaos Avatar from JJ (I hope they fix it an it starts curing Goatpersons poison and mana burn, though).
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby Darvin on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:41 pm

I'm not sure about this but I take humility from GG. It's bascaly an XP gain boosting boon and the goat loves those.

I've got mixed feelings on it. On the one hand, yes it's great for XP gain. On the other hand, it weakens your fireball attack and reduces your ability to eat popcorn, and the benefit of full heals on catapults just isn't there.

I'm not going to dismiss it outright (I certainly have used it when GG pops up) but it's definitely a steeper tradeoff for the Goatperson.


Funnily enough, blood curse is also awesome

Yup; basically you trade off a small amount of future XP earning in exchange for higher fireball damage and piety. Seeing as the Goatperson just doesn't reach level 10 over the course of normal play and doesn't lose out on level-up catapults, the normal downsides of blood curse just aren't there.
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby Lujo on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:55 pm

Auto-first strike against practicaly same level popcorn you want to munch on for the food anyway is also great, and it helps in case TT is there, too :)

A lucky combination of lvl1 blood curse + fine sword is very very good on a goat.
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Re: Special Edition Character Now Available!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:33 pm

The only bad thing about blood curse is it throws out the balanced dagger, which is an incredibly valuable item. That and Yendor.
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