Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

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Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby xing on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:52 am

Heya, great game.

I recently unlocked these side quests, unlikely heroes.

I'm struggling with the challenges. Their Conversion is really weird to use with. If I use Halfling mages, and try to use their conversion, they don't last 1 hit for the pots to be used. If I go magic... even less use.

Any tips?
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:17 am

For those quests I typically try to play the class more than the race. Sometimes with them you can find really interesting interactions (like elven fighter being crazy powerful) but with the Halflings ho quests you can beat it if you just play to the class's strength, then save all accumulated health potions for the boss fight. I actually just posted a wizard/halfling run at grimm's grotto on my channel. If you are really stuck you can check it out, though figuring it out and beating it on your own is 1/2 the fun :)
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby xing on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:33 am

Hey, I tried looking on you channel, but you played a Elven Warlord in Ep7?

Unless you have an Episode 8 loading?
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:47 am

there are two runs on that episode. the second run is wizard/halfling i think
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby The Avatar on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:18 am

Yes, it's a halfling wizard. For general tips on how to play those races, they should focus on the class (as Jay said). Also, you shouldn't convert ANYTHING before the boss fight unless you need inventory space. There is almost no reason to. If you are ending up short on hp, try prepping a troll heart (or Dwarven Gauntlets if you have elites unlocked).
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby Incompetent on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:09 am

The stylish way to complete these quests is to show that race is truly irrelevant by snagging the Hoarder badge :P
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby Lujo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:37 pm

Also, if the quest includes the halfling bloodmage that one is actually rather good (you can use health pots to fuel B2P).

Otherwise it's like the guys said, but there are catches:

Goblins - well, goblins can be player more for race than class. Save (or time) your conversions cunnigly and get full heals out of level ups (combine with fireball/pissorf and other mid/fight level ups). What ever you do don't convert like a madman when playing Goblins - convert like a madman at the best possible time (most likely during the boss fight). Also, dont pick up stuff you don't need - leave unwanted glyphs lying around and don't spend too much gold if you want to be able to buy & convert cheap junk with good conversion points from the shops.

Gnomes - well, it's pretty straight forward allthough there are 2 schools of thought here. Regardless: Take whatever you are playing and make him a spellcaster, alternatively focus on class (if say Berserker) and if the mana pots work for you, great, if not, oh well. Glowing guardian rewards ption conversio and punishes drinking potions so you can get some piety out of that.

School 1) Throw everything at the boss/bosses. Simply save all your conversion fodder for the boss fight and convert for potions then, dring potions and hit the boss with as many fireballs as you can. It's kind of like playing a goblin in a sense, but you only refresh mana and you always get one potion per cp cap pop.

School 2) Use the potions to level up like a champ. Being able to convert for burst mana lets you spike higher level monsters with fireballs. Since the game is tightly balanced, being able to throw one more fireball can actually be a big deal. Pro's aren't big fans of this since this is actually playing like a complete noob, but with potion races it's pretty much the whole point - you can waste potions (inteligently) and get away with it.

Halflings - Much like the gnome, but you generally need more potions to get a melee hit in. If health potions don't mean anything to your class, focus on the class and spend your potions to get a hit or two in anyway. The unique thing about health potions, though is that Dracul gives piety for converting them, TT has them as a requirement for a powerfull boon and Glowing Guardian also gives piety for them. You can also make your health worth a lot more if you have the appropriate resistance high enough (Monks, Paladins, Binlor, etc). If you have the Bloodtopowa glyph you can use the glyph to trun health into mana, and then heal with a potion, and get more mana (making halflings very good bloodmages). So it's back to 2 schools

School 1) Throw it all at the boss. Whatever class you're playing, save your conversions for the boss fight, convert stuff at appropriate times during the fight and get a bunch of free hits in. Getting your health, or even better damage resistance high enough let's you get more out of your health. With good enough physical damage you can really do a number on the boss.

School 2) Use them for overwhelming temporary advantage. Worship Dracul and dump cp into potions, then dump potions for piety and get yourself a few good boons early - what's not to like? Same with Glowing Guardian, get a temporary piety advantage, and focus on the class. Or simply use a few potions to kill stuff above your level (with potentially the IMAWAL bonus active for more XP) and reach the boss fight levels with a lot of popcorn to munch on.




Also: Sometimes a class really has no use for health or mana potions (rarely since anyone can attack and cast firebals). If you're 100% sure this is the case (and it very rarely is) just see if you can get the hoarder badge (or the parched badge for not drinking either potion). Always remember that Glowing Guardian and Dracul reward converting potions so if you can get use out of them it's still something. Also, the Pactmaker has a pact that gives you a little XP for some piety whenever you drink a potion even if the potion does nothing, it can also help. The Trisword and the Alchemist scroll also work off potion use (and something else does too, I think).
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:10 pm

Pro's aren't big fans of this since this is actually playing like a complete noob, but with potion races it's pretty much the whole point - you can waste potions (inteligently) and get away with it.


I disagree with this. I know that the forum culture here has evolved to look at potion spiking as an abdication of skillfull play, but I think that's wrongheaded. If you already have the parched badge, and if the trivial 5 gold selling price is not an issue, then there is no reason not to use your potions. I see left over potions as resources that weren't used to their fullest potential. This is especially true when playing halflings and gnomes. If you can trade a potion for a higher level kill, that might help you than having that potion during the boss fight.
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby Lujo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Ah, well, it's mostly Darvin and Avatar trying to get the most out of anything, and later in the run the numbers get bigger so a potion spent then arguably does more for you than one spent earlier. It's just an approach thing, and possibly a difficulty/dungeon necessity thing.

You can convert for 2 level ups with a gobbo, pick up tiki tooki and go mad on the popcorn right away, especially if the plan is to nuke the boss with the TT potions or conversion into another guy for his piety spike. It goes against all possible rules of that school of thought and works. Fighters are liable to get bloody stupid this way (and the otherwise useless popcorn-vision also works nicely!). Bloodmages are the kings of burning potions, and can likewise get bloody stupid that way. It's just that while you're learning the ropes it's best to go with the most reliable and conservative option untill you learn enough of the game to know when you get enough (or win the jeackpot) by burning potions.

And I'm a potion spiker myself, it saves both popcorn and exploration which is quite powerful if you can get away with it. And learning it eventually is a bloody must when it comes to VT runs - knowing when to and when not to potion spike something can make a huge bloody difference (since if you don't spike whatever you'll waste either exploration looking for a better target or popcorn and potentially level ups, so yeah, lack of skill my posterior...).

Not to take away from the "save potions for end boss" philosopy - there's nasty dungeons out there and it's perfectly possible to spike down Blah Blah with a halfling if you save your potions (took me a while to get my eyebrows back down off my forehead when I discovered that). Dwarves, Priests, res stackers, warlords - there's plenty of guys who get really fat with levels and then a healing potion simply heals for a lot more health. Deep game.
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:54 pm

I tend to wait until I know who my bosses are before I decide when it is okay to use potions. I feel like it is only a bad idea to potion spike if you don't know what you are up against. To me a win is a win, no matter how close it is - even if it just comes down to a lucky dodge. It isn't about how you played (unless you are trying for some kinda trick shot) it is about victory (and badges of course).
Admittedly though I still haven't beaten VGT or done any VT runs outside the normal,and maybe the easiest hard dungeons. So take it all with a grain of salt. I still have a long way to go in this game.
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