Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:24 am

HAHAHAHAHAHA I am so rusty it is crazy. You are gonna need to have some mercy on Ep. 3 when it goes up. BTW for those several weeks that I didn't upload anything, I also wasn't playing and I have forgotten a lot. I am actually surprised I won on the review.

Yeah I am intentionally not explaining everything, because I don't want to get bogged down in it. I am going to do specific tutorial episodes to explain mechanics. These will replace the ones I have already done and be a bit better since my computer is upgraded.

At some point I am going to try to make a "How To" for every dungeon in the game as well. With the most optimal way to beat every dungeon at least once. Of course that relies on me being able to beat the dungeon myself (looking at you VGT)
As always thanks for the commentary it is always welcome.

TheSchachter: Something you will find while doing audio commentary is that your brain is going to turn off sometimes and you are gonna miss really obvious stuff. I can say for sure I play WAY better when I sit silently and just think. This goes for commentary on just about any game, but especially one that requires you to think.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Lujo on Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:02 pm

JayPlaysIndieGames wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA I am so rusty it is crazy.


The skill decay effects in this game are generally hilarious ^^
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Blovski on Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:17 pm

I am so glad Avatar has no way of seeing my play at the moment. Might see if I can make a video or two or a walkthrough thing at some point myself. Enjoying these : )

@Lujo, I've been having that so bad. I was playing a bloodmage earlier and I forgot I could use Bloodtopowa and Bloodpools until about level 7. No skill decay for Assassin Bronze though.. :lol:
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:33 am

Time to get back to yelling at a screen :D

Episode 3: Four runs in 41 minutes? You've really cut down on your time. Well done. The first time you beat a dungeon its symbol expands into the full version. Then once you get everything you get everything the border turns gold, then rainbow if you also get goat person and vicious token. Oh, wait, just three ones in 41 minutes. You are a wizard. All glyphs are small space. Even with hoarder pick everything up. It's 5 mana for a wizard fireball. FIVE. Really? Not LEMISI either? At least LEMISI had immediate use… Not BICEPS either? This looks like intentional self-restriction. Well, at least your regen fighting has been precise so far. You should probably have been taking out 2 level higher guys, but one level higher is better than nothing. NO! When you ENDISWAL into a block, SAVE THOSE TILES FOR LATER. Oh god. Stop considering potions like they are options for a fight (excluding the boss). You should be exploring towards your last glyph. If you picked up and used BICEPS you could have killed that level 6 wizard. Seriously, as a wizard there is no reason not to pick up a glyph 99% of the time. Did you forget about your last glyph? Good level up kill. As much as I have criticized, this hasn't been so bad. USE BURNING POP OFF. If a monster has very low hp and burning, chances are attacking another monster will get you the kill. You should have been using ENDISWAL to clear holes the whole time. Good use of burning pop off. Seriously, your glyph play has been pathetic so far. THERE IS LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE TO FILL YOUR INVENTORY WITH AND THEY ARE SMALL SPACE. Did you forget ENDSIWAL? REALLY?! You could even use LEMISI as a substitute! Ugh. Well, at least you are remembering your staircase. You picked up BICEPS, but not anything else. Are you even looking at your inventory? In a hoarder run, you should be constantly fixated on inventory. Wow, this could have been significantly easier. At least you are mid fight leveling. Honestly, I would throw in hoarder and get feeling parched here. Hoarder is much easier (surprisingly) once you have items. They let you substitute for your conversion. This is honestly an embarrassment. as of now. You have totally forgotten your glyphs, your class abilities, given up on hoarder and feeling parched. It wouldn't have been hard to score both of those along with specialist. That was bad. There's nothing more to be said. Let's hope the next is better. Hmm… until you get the transmutation scroll I prefer the slayer wand to the sword. Plus, it is easier on hoarder runs as it is disposable. Wow, this is set up to be a ROFLstomp. Wow, that was a hilarious fail. Now you're stuck and have to waste a whole bunch of stuff. This is a comedy at this point. Ah, lord gobb. No fun. Try not to IMAWAL this one :D All jokes aside, this is still totally on track to be a ROFLstomp. You are going to push that warlock to his death… Ah, Lujo the halfling! Actually, you don't have to win. Just exit without dying. You have BURNDAYRAZ and GETINDARE. That means 2 level higher kills are MANDATORY. Anything lower is wasted potential. WHAT? NOT THIS HABIT! Please don't use laziness as an excuse for mediocrity (which leads to failure). It both looks pathetic and is ineffective. Good, you're ding two level higher kills. This is better. And you shouldn't have double fireballed. There was no need, and it simply wastes tiles overall. You didn't even notice your dodge?! This play is rather oblivious. Actually, those are the worst possible level nines. Tiles aren't you largest resources ATM, and meat men and zombies are the biggest drain on said resource. Kill that level 8. GETINDARE? You know you have it right? WHAT? THERE ARE 6 TILES AND A SUBDUNGEON'S WORTH OF EXPLORATION! Well, at least you got hoarder. Don't attack the first striker if you don't have a chance of leveling. Honestly, I would be more concerned with scoring warmonger. It is the harder badge. Then again, I suppose you will do this dungeon with the berserker, so you can save it. That was honestly better than the wizard run (excluding your amusing early mistake). Let's hope the third is the best. ENDISWAL! What a good find! You should be punching holes in blocks and 1-tile thick corridor walls for more exploration/access. Fine sword should be an instant purchase at level 1. Oh dear, this is an ugly start. Just look for some easier kills (or BURNDAYRAZ). There, that is enough. Seriously, why are you playing a dwarf fighter. Unless you plan to exceed 150 hp, it isn't going to be very valuable. Why would you get rid of that ENDISWAL? I almost never do that until I am certain I don't/won't need it. Now you can't break into/out of a corridor, your exploration is limited, and you have no method for draining excess mana. Oh, you noticed the dodge this time? That's better. If you are going for feeling parched (and have self-confidence) convert all of your potions. It's an extra 80 CP, which is a significant boost. Good call on the level 7. NO! You are doing an overly structured method of regen fighting. You used 40 tiles when 1 to just get over the fireball threshold would have sufficed… Structure may be helpful, but mindless following is suicide in Desktop Dungeons. Good choice on the zombie for the mid-fight level up kill. He was going to be almost impossible to kill later. Gobb AGAIN? You forget you are going for feeling parched. If you want to get that, you are going to need a bit more than what you have. See, if you had been a human this would have been over by now. You are a fighter. If anyone gets this mid fight level up, you do. Good job. That was the best run. Well, good job and all that.

KEY POINTS (Advanced tips for Jay and more experienced players)
Seriously, use ENDISWAL with all of your extra mana and make the most of each use.

As I always say, keep your strategy, regen fighting, etc. more open. You will do better.

NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE WHATSOEVER, FORET YOUR CLASS ABILITIES.

Never use laziness as an excuse for bad play. If you think something might be possible, CHECK instead of either trying blindly or ignoring the option. Once you are better you can estimate this well.

Basic Lessons (For any and all new players)
Every glyph is very useful. If you disagree, feel free to argue the point and you will be proven wrong. Thus, from the previous point, it should be clear that you very rarely want to convert a glyph on sight.

The BURNDAYRAZ glyph alone should let you get one level higher glyphs. Combo it with GETINDARE or some other glyphs and you can get even higher level kills.

Episode 4: Heh, the vicious badge. I love that thing. IMO, the best start is the rogue. It lets you get your Bet on Boss out ASAP, as it is more valuable early when trophies are worth 300 or so. Ah, the banker quests are the best. You get a free upgrade and a cash bonus. Honestly, the shield very rarely ever makes a difference. It is much more of an early game thing which you use to get high level kills without many other resources. YES! Good job! You remembered to explore around your target pre-WEYTWUT. WEYTWUT is not the only way to get rid of first strike. Anything that slows does that. Good job so far. This is quite nicely done. Honesly, you don't always HAVE to pre-WEYTWUT monsters you are going to use WEYTWUT to kill. You just have to make sure the extra exploration doesn't make your last hit not kill. That is the problem with your amulet of health purchase. A fine sword would have been much better overall. Good job doing this well without BURNDAYRAZ. There are reasons not to carry it around: you want to carry something better around. You need BURNDAYRAZ for that, or use your PISORF. Mistake. You could have PISORFed again. And they were necessary, so good job. Wow, the game is being really mean here. It's hidden BURNDAYRAZ… Good. YOu did three PISORFs this time. Actually, there are only 2 level 9s and 3 level 8s. And the other level 9 is a zombie so double damage. Actually, some of the most fun/amusing strats in the game are PISORF centered. You even remembered to explore all the way around! GOOD JOB! It didn't end up mattering, but even still. It's the theory that counts for now. Oh wow, you can get two classes! Either sorcerer or rogue should be your pick. Magnet: Fireball and Bet on Boss are the two most valuable preps in the game. Actually, I like unlocking the goat, gorgon and wraith. They have sub-average stats and make for easy leveling. Ah, shame. I thought you were going to do venture cave unlikely heroes. If you are going for warmonger, convert your mana potions on sight. 40 CP is valuable. Seriously, you far overvalue exploration. You didn't heal faster then him. You just deal significantly more damage. I usually explore thirty or forty percent of the map before starting on kills. Good, you looked at the level 6 wraith. I was about to type that as a recommendation. You could have explored one tile next to the meat man for the win and… you used a potion. WHY? IT IS SUCH A WASTE. THAT WAS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. You can go diagonally around that level 1 meat man… Good choice, If you find a significantly better target it is fine to ditch your current one. This is why you use ENDISWAL. That's not really an option for this warmonger run, OFC, but the point stands. That level 9 does magic damage. Why are you still attacking the one that does't? That was sad. Let's do better this time. I don't believe in the concept of screwed by random. Unless the run is LITERALLY impossible (or practically, as in there are only 10 or so solutions), we as players have no right to complain. There were thousands of viable solutions to your previous run, so you just need to get better at identifying one of them instead of saying it isn't your fault. I am aware of how harsh/accusatory that sounds, and I don't mean it that way. My main point is the difference between a normal player and a great player is a great player wins when he's dealt junk while the normal player wins when he's dealt a winning hand. Well, I kind of went on a tangent there and lost track of the run, but I looked back to see you mindlessly slaughtering level ones for almost no apparent reason. THAT IS NOT A GOOD CHOICE. The level 9 is too hard, but the level 8 is a good kill. There is a level one meat man there. Oh dear, that was a waste. Please don't potion. Too late. Seriously, STOP USING THOSE POTIONS. I'm not going to "get over it". It is poor play and I am here to try to make your play better. That boss has 59 (I always wondered if this was a typo) physical resist. Either that or it was the devs making fun of us way back when when we thought the tormented one's physical resist was too high. Just kill the boss. You have amid fight level up, potions and exploration. Again… This is kind of sad. It's 1:23 AM right now and I have a test tomorrow. Please try to cut down on the misclicks if only for my sanity/happiness. Honestly, I would have gone over to western jungle to unlock Taurog then came back and gotten warmonger. The death gauge shouldn't really take that much checking. Just don't click if the screen flashes red. As much as I have said about getting 2+ higher level kills, on the flip side it is okay to settle for weaker kills. Especially when you explore a lot of the map early (WHICH IS GOOD), it is okay to settle for a higher level kill that levels you and takes no exploration vs looking for a 2+ level higher regen fight. ARGH! WHY SO MANY POTIONS? You can win the game using less potions than you do in this video! There actually can be reason not to grab hp potions, just not this early. If there isn't much exploration, stop wasting it. Try not to misclick. Good. Check please. Good job remembering the subdungeon. Now regen fight with your last few tiles… or just potion. Whatever. Well, good job and good night, etc.

KEY POINTS (For Jay and more advanced players)
If you are in a warmonger run, convert all mana potions ASAP. If you are in a feeling parched, convert all potions ASAP (unless you plan to worship a good who likes potion conversions).

Don't be afraid to explore early, but be willing to hold back and take a lamer kill. It's all about balancing this.

Don't overuse potions. They are a last resort.

Pre-explore for WEYTWUT whenever necessary.

Basic Lessons (For any and all new players)
Save your potions for the boss.

Honestly, if you understand what are in the previous Basic Lessons and can apply them, you are ready for KEY POINTS.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:10 am

yeah, my play is becoming really lazy due to these normal dungeons. I'm kinda trying to rush through them so I can get back to the meat of the game. Doing 2 or 3 runs per episode. I can't wait till my kingdom is mostly hard dungeons and this lazy play will be punished severely.
Right now my lvl of play is nowhere near where it was when I was consistently throwing myself at hard dungeons.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:57 am

Shoot! I'm three videos behind?! Well, I'd better catch up now in case other people are reading these...

Part 5: You really should unlock a god or two. It makes things so much more interesting. The best place for dimensional dealings is Northern Desert because you can sell the extra trophy for 25 more gold. ENDISWAL! FUN! And you start wasting your ENDISWAL explorations immediately. You really have to work on that. Well, fortunately you can WONAFYT properly, so this should be better. GETINDARE? This just gets better and better! Next thing you know you'll have the tormented one as your boss. WHY OH WHY MUST YOU WASTE ENDISWAL EXPLORATION? You keep exploring. NO! DO NOT KILL THOSE LEVEL 1S! See, the level twos were ALL one space out of your sight. There is a level 3 on your screen. You just used your DP that early? Okay… This is why magnet fireball is such a great prep. For now just buy an item for damage. The warlock is a much better target than the goblin. You can use GETINDARE! Why the goblin. WHY? THINK ABOUT IT. Also, you are ENDSIWALing meaninglessly.At least break the massive blocks whose interiors are hidden. I repeat, you don't have to win, just survive. Well, at least one of those two ENDISWALs was slightly helpful. Wrong move. You should have converted ENDISWAL. You don't have enough tiles to support a fighting strategy with it an you don't need it to explore. Popcorn bowling would have been better. No, you don't aim high enough! Get 2 level higher kills! Here is an example where I would just go for a level up kill. Aaand mistake. That was the last of your exploration, that one piece of popcorn would have saved. If you had picked up WEYTWUT that wouldn't have needed any tiles and netted you an extra exp. YES! AIM FOR 2 LEVEL HIGHER KILLS! ONE IS NOT ENOUGH! That zombie was a poor target. You should just go after the boss. If you convert two glyphs and buy the pendant you will have 18 mana. Then you can use fireballs+mid fight level up+badge of honor+GETINDARE to kill him Feeling Parched. Or just do this. YOU AREN'T EVEN CONVERTING GLYPHS! YOU COULD HAVE NETTED 2 MORE FIREBALLS! Why would you wait on conversions as AN ELF! I hate to say it, but you deserve a loss here. You can level up. And you forgot GETINDARE. That was not deserved. You try to pull that in hard and you will fail hugely. You could get unstoppable. You used your DP at level 2. You could have gotten it, but whatever. Your loss. Seriously, you have to do better if you want to keep winning as you head into the main potion of the game. Or just abuse gods until vicious (and through a couple vicious runs). Seriously, just don't take the sword for one run. Purist like that is much less painful then leaving behind all of the later preps. WHAT?! YOU CONVERTED ENDISWAL! Unless you go warmongering, you should be ashamed. Finding an ENDISWAL that early can be a godsend. You berserkers rage too hard. So you instantly convert ENDISWAL but not IMAWAL? You need to revalue your glyphs. You can literally beat that level 2 to death. What the heck are you doing? You have easily enough resources to kill that level 2. Searching for a possibly nonexistent level 3 magic is not smart, so just kill him. You should have used your fireball on a monster before mana burning on a full mana bar. No way you'll kill a 2 level higher zombie without some better gear. That level 4 meat man, on the other hand, looks awfully juicy. Here's a good tip, if you are 1 or 2 exp short of leveling, you don't have a target you really want to kill this level, and both of your stat bars are low (because you just killed a higher level enemy presumably), kill some popcorn to conserve exploration. Mind you, only do so if you need to conserve exploration as it nets less exp overall. Heh, this run is too easy. Just whack it enough and throw a spell of two if necessary to win. Just go to Northern Desert to get it. Good job. Your regen fighting could have been more efficient (and thus it costs you tiles), but it wasn't too bad. Just attack the boss now. Don't explore the whole map! You can regen fight the boss! Good job leveling just short of 7. You should also kill any hard popcorn (popcorn that deals damage, whether with first strike or you not being able to one shot it). What a joke. Well, there goes the wizard. Poor guy never stood a chance. No feeling parched?! WHAT? DOES IT NOT IN ANY WAY OCCUR THAT YOU CAN REGEN FIGHT THE BOSS? Kind of lost it there. Sorry. That was just really not thought out at all on your part. Seriously, if regen fighting a boss doesn't occur to you then the monk will be impossible. You have more tiles, and each potion is worth kingdom gold. Always try to leave with as many as possible. Unstoppable wasn't even new, so no cash prize for it.

KEY POINTS: Seriously, your ENDISWALing is horrendous. You don't create any value and whatever minor value you create you immediately squander. It is almost NEVER worth killing level 1s to level up at level 1 (balanced dagger being the exception). You need to think more about picking the right target. For example, if you have GETINDARE, attack the warlock to level instead of the goblin; If you aren't a priest, attack anyone but the zombie; etc. Never wait on Human, Elf, Dwarf, or Orc conversions. It hurts you a lot in the long run. If you can regen fight the boss, REGEN FIGHT THE BOSS!

Part 6: Well, if there's one thing to be said for class challenges, it is they make you look good! 150 gold for first tier (and special class) bronzes, 250 for second tier, 350 for third tier. Elf, Goblin, Human, and JJ gnomes are the best fighters. Also, they have totally different rules. Monster generation, guaranteed glyph and god spawns (or a smaller pool they randomize from). Don't kill the level 1 goats. There are two gorgons for levels 1-7 each. Actually, this is the only dungeon where I don't kill any higher level monsters. There are 5 more unsummoned goats, but it doesn't matter. Seriously, you can just get slowed kills on same level monsters for this dungeon. This may be the only time I don't flip on you for doing this… Seriously, scan line-by-line. Moving your cursor in a random path to see if you mouse over it is not a smart move. Just take the health booster and retry. Wow, this is better play than I usually bring to fighter bronze. Good for you. It should work with the attack booster or by buying a pendant/sigil. Well done so far. I really can't find fault in your play right now. Uh, the level 6 is right in the middle of your screen. Well, better late then never. Don't forget to slow the lower level gorgons! You should at least slow the same level guys with IMAWAL. Every bit of exp counts! You can definitely level up fight her. Yes! You are SO RIGHT! Always look at your monster panel! There. Nicely done. Almost flawless. You know what that 18 gold is? The potions you wasted on your berserker run in the previous video. That is LITERALLY the difference. Orc berserker is almost always the better choice. If you can find a fine sword this gets about 8 times easier. You can kill him pretty easily by revealing 2 tiles. You are forgetting the berserkers +30% bonus vs higher level monsters. You know you can kill non-magic monsters. Seriously, are you trying to blow all of your exploration at level 4? You can use popcorn now. A LEVEL 5 GOAT! KILL IT! Good. You can kill tat level 7 mage. And now you see it, mid fight. See, here's where you should just level up to save exploration. Or fight the boss. Alright, you can just fight the boss. You will probably need to regen fight him, while looking for that last exp for the level up. Seriously, why do you have such a ridiculous aversion to regen fighting bosses? See, if you had regen fought it would have handed you the needed exp on a silver platter. It probably isn't a good choice on your part to get level 3 guild so early. It puts one of the nastiest monsters into your pool and you still don't have Magnet: Fireball or Bet on Boss. You unlocked the glyph. That's what unlocking him does. Actually, he does less than a berserker at low health. The class challenge unlocks as soon as you click on and off the building…

KEY POINTS: Never forget the berserkers +30% bonus vs higher level monsters. Seriously, regen fight bosses. It's almost never a bad choice. SMM would be almost impossible without it, and SDMM would be impossible.

Part 7: Ah, I'm finally catching up. Wow, it is interesting what different focuses are profiles have. I still haven't unlocked Grimm's or Doubledoom, but I've beaten VGT (I went for a speed run kingdom basically…). Yes, warlords have great leveling ability. On the other hand, in later levels they tend to lack staying power unless set up with large mana pools/reserves and good preps. High health is still good for the warlord. Generally you need to be able to take at least one hit to win vs a monster (as a warlord) so all the extra health helps. You haven't precasted CYDSTEPP. ALWAYS PRECAST CYDSTEPP. Good, you noticed. Actually, that in one of the best subungeons for your warlord. It nets you a schadenfreude AND a compression seal in exchange for reducing your hp to 1. If your hp is 1, it won't do a thing. Good. WEYTWUTing for the kill is better than CYDSTEPPing. It nets an exp. You may be a warlord, but you can still regen fight. And you forgot to precast. Don't get lazy with that. It leads to far too many accidental deaths. Nice burning pop-off kill. You are not going to get a 4 level higher zombie kill as a warlord. A goat maybe, a zombie no. I don't know how you think you can kill that zombie, but you can't without finding some more battle glyphs (like ENDISWAl or BICEPS). Ah, more poor ENDISWALing. Really, you could kill the level 9 goblin with this much preparation. Yeah, this is actually a great subdungeon. Convert BICEPS and WEYTWUT and you'll have 18 mana to crush the goo. Well, at least you converted pre-boss. PRECAST CYDSTEPP. Why not attack the boss before leveling. WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING? SCHADENFREUDE COULD HAVE GOTTEN YOU FEELING PARCHED! Well, a win is a win. Eh, Grimm's Grotto isn't a normal hard dungeon. It and doubledoom are more the baby hard dungeons. They have hard stats (I believe it is a 125% bonus to monster stats, 133% bonus for vicious and Grimm's Grotto, and double the hp and 180% the percentages for vicious token). Good luck! Honestly, as a wizard this shouldn't be too hard. Wizards are up there as one of the the strongest classes (Wizard, Rogue, Paladin, Assassin, Monk). Wow, that was a very lucky find. Grimm's Grotto has the alpha generation which means it randomly places the monsters instead of rigging them to spawn lower levels near the entrance. Are you going to go in the subdungeon? This is so wrong. As soon as you are playing a halfling you focus on early conversion, but as an elf you won't convert until the boss? THAT IS THE LITERAL OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU SHOULD DO, REGARDLESS OF CLASS. Wow, that was very lucky. That is the easiest boss you could have pulled. There is a level 4 TWO TILES from your hero. YOU ARE NEXT TO IT NOW! Man, that is painful to watch. Actually, your DP is going to be pretty useless for the boss fight. The boss will resist 59% of the damage and burn your mana. Burning pop-off would have done it, but the tiles work too. Despite your blindness and poor monster selection, this run hasn't been that bad. You are correct. This is literally the only hard dungeon with one boss, except in some cases (*cough BERSERKER CAMP *cough*) the boss is more of a pile of exp than a problem. Sorry if my commentary on this run is a little empty. I keep getting distracted, and I don't have enough time to rematch it. Overall it looks like you've leveled very inefficiently (as you are out of tiles at level 5), but you could kill the boss really soon so it doesn't matter. You are playing this like a normal dungeon instead of a hard or vicious one. Also, you just forgot burning pop-off and had to waste your DP. WHAT? YOUR HEALTH POTIONS ARE PRACTICALLY USELESS! YOU NEED THOSE MANA POTIONS FOR THE BOSS! That's a win, but it wasn't pretty. I wish I could tell you what you did wrong, but I must have missed it. I would bet on poor targeting.

KEY POINTS: Never forget your precasts. Always do them ASAP. Convert earlier with Elves, Humans, Dwarves, and (especially) Orcs. Convert as needed with halflings and gnomes. Focus a lot more on targeting. It is HUGELY important.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:02 pm

I am going to start a "How to beat. . .enter dungeon name here" series that will hopefully work through every dungeon in the game (except maybe the normals) where I try to make the optimal class/race combination and preps (that would likely be unlocked at that point in the game) to defeat a dungeon at least once to help people not get stuck in a particular place.

Anyway I am starting with Grimm's Grotto and I am thinking the absolute best class race for just beating the dungeon the easiest way possible is probably Halfling/Priest with Fine Sword and Perseverance Badge.

Any other tier one/tier two class/race combos that you guys think might make this place even easier for a new player who is stuck?
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:29 am

I'd be more inclined for human/elf/gnome wizard for Grimm's. They are better in the hands of a pro player then halfling priests, but they both work quite well.

Part 8: Just go to northern desert! It makes dimensional dealings easy. Western Jungle? I was hoping you wouldn't unlock Taurog until later. Once you understand the divine system he is ridiculous in non-vicious. Then again, as long as you don't exclusively use him it's fine. Always go into the subdungeon IMMEDIATELY. There wasn't a need to potion. you could have leveled off your slowed wraiths. Yeah, corrosion is nasty at low levels. Fortunately, that pendant of health solves your problem. What was that? You just switched him into a hallway. You seriously have regen fighting issues. You could have easily regen fought that warlock. You should have used WEYTWUT for the kill. It would have leveled you and preserved 3 extra exp worth of popcorn. Taurog's Trial is actually rather easy. Wrong, the guardians have magic immunity, so fireball is useless. You should be casting GETINDARE before every hit (though make sure you save 3 for the final hit). You would have gotten far more dodges that way and be more economic. Yes, BUILD THE DODGE CHANCE! Ah, you really need to do that. See, this is my point. Taurog is powerful, but BORING. If you just keep Tauroging it will be easy and dull. So don't. Unlock a second god to make things more interesting. Actually, Taurog doesn't care all that much when you use glyphs. It is only -2 piety. Since you know there isn't a physical resist boss and you will not need it at all, then you can convert it. What are you doing? You can kill the higher level blob. Good call on that DP, now you can use the badge to get more stuff. Don't forget your GETINDARE! It is SO USEFUL with Taurog. That was dumb. GETINDARE is far more valuable than that Pendant, even if it is a glyph and you use Taurog. You can kill him with a level up. You need to explore the whole map before you assault Getandafix. Actually, converting BURNDAYRAZ was fine. Wow, that was a poor choice. You just wasted a hit on the boss. That was an even ore poor choice. Seriously, when you are leveling up before the boss fight (as in the level you fight him before the mid fight level up), attack some lower level enemies that take two hits because they don't work mid battle. Why would you attack the LEVEL 7 goo when there is a LEVEL 6 goo. WHAT? You are playing a fighter without mid fight level ups? That is just a very poor choice. None of it matters, but this is just poorly played. Please don't get wrapped up in how OP Taurog is in early dungeons. It really is boring. Actually, orcs are always weaker late game. Even with rogues and berserkers. Still, orc rogues+berserkers are still better because they come much close to their human counterparts while being able to power level massively early. Convert both glyphs to kill the level 2 meat man. If you BICEPS then burn you will win. Eh, that was only 2 levels higher. Mid-game berserkers can snag 5 level higher magic kills. That is not efficient vs the meat man. And you leveled up. You aren't wasting THAT much fortunately. Well, this ought to be easy. Good job worshiping Taurog AFTER the IMAWAL but BEFORE the kill. That's well planned. You are an orc berserker of Taurog. Convert everything (except GETINDARE). Seriously, you could be leveling much more efficiently if you converted ENDISWAL (after you bust some holes in the walls) and BURNDAYRAZ. That's why you use ENDISWAL. Wrong choice. BURNDAYRAZ is pretty meaningless to your berserker. That is three health potions for a three level higher kill. Probably the single worst decision possible short of SUICIDE. You have exploration… BINLOR! Seriously, learn the piety gains and losses. You play terrified of Taurog when there was no chance of his anger. ENDISWAL THE MAP THEN! YOU CAN ACCESS ANYWHERE YOU WANT TO, BUT INSTEAD YOU REPEATEDLY CHOOSE TO GET RID OF YOUR POPCORN! You already have enough piety for all of Taurog's items… The tower shield should be converted, not GETINDARE. The boss has magic res and now you have no way to fuel binlor piety. Seriously, what are you doing right now. Either attack the boss, level, switch to Binlor, or just DO SOMETHING with your exploration. ANYTHING is better than nothing. YOU'RE WORSHIPING BINLOR! Whenever you unlock a god, you AUTOMATICALLY switch over. Well, you won. Good job and all that, but seriously you played like an idiot that second run. Just because you are a berserker of Taurog does not mean you have to not even consider glyphs.

KEY POINTS: Seriously, you need to work on knowing when you can vs when you can't regen fight. You make some pretty big mistakes in that department. You undervalue GETINDARE and forget to stack dodge. You can use glyphs as Taurog, it's only -2 piety (half a non-magical kill, 1/4 of a magical kill). If you have exploration glyphs and are doing nothing with them as you explore, you are making a huge mistake.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:09 pm

Yeah, I am being very lax on the regen fighting. I am trying to open up all four directions ASAP so that I have a lot of options open to me. Don't worry I won't be just Tauroging all day and night. I want to get as many gods available as I can.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:50 am

Wow, I'm way way behind. Sorry about that. Things are kind of hectic.

Episode 9: Orc thieves are the better than humans, but halflings and gnomes trump bot most of the time. Early CYDSTEPP is a rather nice find there. Yeah, the Bloody Sigil is ridiculous early game. It literally DOUBLES your regeneration speed at level 1, meaning regen fighting is very easy with BURNDAYRAZ. Then it also converts for a 5:1 gold to CP ratio. EM! You can always get to her while only incurring poison and mana burn. So it's free if you are about to level. You totally over-hype the importance of exploration. It is necessary, but a lot of the time simply gathering resources and then cleaning up with higher level kills is better. You chose a goo over a meat man? Why? You should never have to ask "Do I want to use GETINDARE". The only circumstance where the answer is no is if you will never use it at all (usually slowed strike, or if extremely weakened). YOU CAN GETINDARE FOR THE KILL. Always, always, ALWAYS GETINDARE for the kill! Convert WEYTWUT. WONAFYT and GETINDARE basically copy its effects. WHAT? That was a poor decision. First, you should have been using WONAFYT. Second, WONAFYT+CYDSTEPP+GETINDARE is MUCH BETTER than WEYTWUT+GETINDARE+2 Conversions. The best move was convert WEYTWUT and CYDSTEPP. You can WEYTWUT corrosion plants and gardeners... Good job properly regen fighting (as in to the exact tile). There is a level 7 meat man, and that is fine. Thank you for not potioning. It's nice to see you making better choices. Hmm... I would get at least one use out of that IMAWAL and combo it with the CYDSTEPP for a nice kill. Ah, that was a mistake. If you had revealed 1 tile you could have attacked and GETINDAREd instead of exploring up. And AGAIN! Except all you needed to do was HIT GETINDARE! The reason veterans can afford to use so many tiles early is we can level up EFFICIENTLY. You just squandered 30+ tiles, and you only have 20 left. That is BAD. You can kill that warlock fairly easily. No, you could have killed the 1 level higher warlock. The level up would have netted enough hp to take a hit and GETINDARE for the kill. Seriously, have you forgotten your GETINDARE? You can VERY easily defeat him with only 9 tiles necessary. You are OUT OF TILES. FIGHT THE BOSS. Seriously, does attack-BURNDAYRAZ-GETINDARE not occur to you? You literally had a WIN prediction in front of you and DIDN'T KILL IT. You could get one more tile, but that's what you get for not scanning the tiles. Well, at least you properly used your mana before leveling. WHAT ARE YOU DOING/THINKING? YOU HAD FEELING PARCHED! THAT WAS RIDICULOUS! You seem to have a real inability to form the concept of Fireball-GETINDARE. Whenever you fireball, you only fireball again, EVEN IF GETINDARE WOULD KILL. Wow, the ONE time you fireball GETINDARE is after the boss. That's sad... Well, hopefully this rogue run will go better. I totally debate the fine sword being the best mid-game locker prep, but I suppose it depends on when you unlock stuff. For example, I consider the Dwarven Gauntlets and Balanced Dagger both MUCH better preps. While Dwarven Gauntlets can take awhile to get, you can get the Balanced Dagger BEFORE THE LOCKER. That is just a flat out bad choice. Rogues are good with orc and dwarf. It is a fact. Unless you will spend most of your time at level 8-10 (think Vicious Gaan-Telet), you should basically ALWAYS choose an orc (or dwarf). Yes, and ORCS ARE BETTER THAN HUMAN ROGUES. Honestly, I like orc rogues more than dwarf rogues. You just said that early attack buffs are great for the rogue. Guess what? That's what the ORC CONVERSION is. You are literally proving yourself wrong. You can regen fight that goblin. Or not (*sigh*). EM is great for rogues (especially orc rogues) because of vine form. She's not great for dwarf rogues, although Entanglement can be nice. Two points: 1. It's not physical resist, it's DR. 2. It gives you 4 hp every time. That means you should be attacking AT LEAST two level higher guys. Good for you, I was about to say "don't forget IMAWAL", but now I don't have to. What the heck are you doing? You aren't going to convert ANYTHING? Seriously, you wanted a quick attack boost, yet walked over two conversion fodder glyphs! If you used PISORF. It is very rare you want to use clearance to explore freely, but it works in a pinch. How about CONVERTING GLYPHS? Seriously, you used GETINDARE once for the heck of it and have NOT used PISORF. You can double PISORF (by using it in tandem with the clearances you just wasted) then convert it and GETINDARE FTW. You really ought to consider PISORF as an attack glyph. Right now you are just ignoring it... Now's when you wish you were a rogue. This is an example of dumb play. You are wasting exploration for no reason except stubbornness. Then you complain about not having BURNDAYRAZ (per the usual). Seriously, stop telling us how you don't have fireball. It comes off as whiny (whether intentional or not), and usually you can achieve the goal anyways. You should IMAWAL the level 9 goo. You won't kill it. Seriously, don't forget you can IMAWAL higher level monsters. Seriously, what are you doing with the conversions? You aren't a bloody gnome, so don't wait so long to convert. If you need attack, convert then and there. You can kill that naga. You are overleveling. You should just use Vineform. You totally forgot EM. This is poorly done. You should have been vine forming, and you ALWAYS ENTANGLE BEFORE CLEANING UP POPCORN. Well, poorly done but it was a win.

KEY POINTS: Fireball-GETINDARE is usually more powerful than Fireball-Fireball, so NEVER FORGET IT. Keep your options open when regen fighting. WEYTWUT is less valuable than WONAFYT+GETINDARE. Never forget your popcorn bowling with WONAFYT. Entanglement should always be used at least once with EM, and usually immediately. You tend to over level before tackling the boss. Don't wait on conversions unless you are a halfling/gnome. Oh, and Orc Rogue trumps Human Rogue.

Episode 10: Yes! Orc Rogue! Hoarder, Purist, and Purist (in that order) are the last badges I get everywhere. CYDSTEPP! Well, that's a win. What about the level 2 zombie? Good, you saw it at least. BUY THE PENDANT OF HEALTH! If you are doing dimensional dealings, buy everything ASAP unless it is fodder. You are a rogue! BUY THAT PENDANT! Never Bank on Dodge. No, you won't be able to level up kill the level 6 because of his first strike. You haven't wasted anything, you say? What about all of those tiles and CYDSTEPPs and mid-fight level ups? Actually, your promise is incorrect. It would have taken 2 mana potions and two health potions, not one mana potion. WEYTWUT wouldn't have even worked... You are in Den of Danger. Venture Cave is the opposite of closed off. Well, that is a total pain. That pendant of mana is an extra fireball. Also, if you are going for Dimensional Dealings, why don't you buy all of these useful items? See, if you had bought that pendant of mana all of this would be unnecessary. You could also regen 2 tiles and buy the mana potion. You're right, you made lots of mistakes. Actually, there wasn't that much you could do to do better against that boss except make it so you get another mid-fight level up. You are going dimensional dealings. Please just buy the bloody sigil. All you needed to do was hit and WEYTWUT. WEYTWUT is better than CYDSTEPP. Come ON! It is so basic to regen mana between fights (when necessary). You can't afford to screw up such fundamentals. You keep converting WONAFYT so early. It is so much better than you are giving it credit for right now. You should be using it constantly through level 4 at LEAST. Oh, before I forget. Orc Thieves are also better than Human Thieves. No, WEYTWUT could not have done that, because WEYTWUT doesn't cost 3 MANA! You don't like Medusa as your boss? She is literally the easiest boss in your pool. You should just kill her now. That better have been sarcasm. It is NEVER worth exploring your last tiles for a booster unless it is what you need to take a hit from the boss. That was stupid. All you needed to do was BUNRDAYRAZ first. Seriously, you really need to look before you leap. Playing faster is nice, but if it causes sloppiness, it should be avoided.

KEY POINTS: Banking on dodge is not smart. The big thing here is THINKING AS YOU PLAY. It summarizes the rest of the mistakes you make. If you just payed attention, took that extra second to think, check your stats and check the monster panel, this would all work out fine and you'd play much better.
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