Beta update: Magical mystery tour

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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby q 3 on Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:49 am

Warlords do pretty well with Glowing Guardian early on - assuming you're saving your mana potions for the boss - as they are one of the best classes to take advantage of Humility (being not nearly as reliant on BURNDAYRAZ, HALPMEH, or health regeneration to get high level kills) and can build piety fairly well with courageous kills as a result (and can also take Absolution without having to worry as much about the lost exp). For the boss, you'll generally want to convert to Mystera or Taurog (he doesn't penalize magic use very much, and you aren't casting a large number of spells which is where he nails you) and that usually means foregoing Enlightenment because building up enough piety to convert afterwards is quite difficult.

Dracul actually works reasonably well for Warlords in the endgame, depending on your strategy and available resources, either as a conversion from someone else or even as a brand new worshiper. You can freely give him most of your max HP in exchange for sky high max MP. Again, though, you'll generally want to convert to someone else afterwards (which shouldn't be too hard, since at level 10 you can easily obtain over 200 piety from him via sacrificing HP).

Mystera -> Tikki Tooki -> Mystera should also work reasonably well. Build your piety up to 100, ignoring low level monsters as much as possible, then switch to TT and take his exp and/or dodge boons, kill a bunch of low level monsters, then convert back so you can avoid being penalized for death protection.

I do wish there were more viable ways to stick with one diety the whole way through, but if you're willing to shop around there are a lot of workable combinations. I think it's mainly Halflings (and Priests) who are really lacking in options at the moment (other than Taurog).
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby TigerKnee on Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:55 am

The blink/spawning thing is Getanadafix only.


Oh, you don't need to have both abilities for a fireball strategy to be annoying. Namtar, Count Blahd and The Avatar are all pretty tough if you try for it. Any "Counter Fireball" bosses will also give you a huge slap in the face like one of the Djinn in The Avatar quest.

As far as Halflings go... well, the thing is, if you're engaging in melee predominantly, you generally want an attack boost race, because attack boosting races are the only ones who can possibly regen fight tougher opponents than them.

Elf has a niche in that it can use utility and pure fireballs on say, Wraiths/Bandits better than Humans/Orcs, and Dwarves has a niche in that raising MaxHP allows you to possibly take on higher level opponents that may otherwise kill you (although Dwarves aren't that strong most of the time if you aren't playing Rogue)

Halflings can't regen-fight as well as Human/Orcs and don't have the raw HP of Dwarves to fill their niche. Technically I do believe their healing potions do give them more HP than a Dwarf using potions but I don't think that makes up for it.

Normally most of the bosses right now, you blow right through even with a naked alpha goblin (the one that gains 10 gold with a conversion, not the EXP one) or you don't have the right tools and you die, only really a few bosses require a complete outslugging strategy like The Indomitable.

Also, Priest and Thieves, two of the best Halfling classes, aren't THAT strong in this version. Priest is unfortunately not exactly able to take advantage of GG despite being thematically fitting because... he hates potions, while Thieves don't have the items and the ability to bring in more than 25 gold that they really need to take advantage of a dungeon.

Edit: SPEAKING OF GOBLINS, has anyone found any real use for them in this version? There seems to be more ways to take advantage of a lower level than to gain EXP from glyphs and end up with less EXP overall because you didn't use your low levels to take down higher level enemies and get the EXP bonus.
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby Darvin on Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:47 am

SPEAKING OF GOBLINS, has anyone found any real use for them in this version? There seems to be more ways to take advantage of a lower level than to gain EXP from glyphs and end up with less EXP overall because you didn't use your low levels to take down higher level enemies and get the EXP bonus.

Save all your glyphs for the boss battle, and you can often sneak in one extra level-up. Works particularly well for assassins since it might let you swift hands an extra monster or two and keep your catapult going. Otherwise, not that much.

Now, if you could get a free HP/Mana boost for every 50 XP after level 10, that might give goblins the edge they need. Right now, a well-played goblin can overshoot level 10 by a significant margin, and their conversion bonus can become irrelevant even when you still have lots to convert. Giving them some way to utilize that would be very helpful.
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby TigerKnee on Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:39 am

Darvin wrote:What's this Namtar I keep hearing about? What dungeon is he in?


Namtar is the boss in... well, Namtar's Lair (surprise!) which is just below The Crypt.

He's a multiple form boss with stuff like teleport, cowardly, high resistances, corrosive/weakening and there are events which makes your characters weaker as he changes form. Have fun!

He wasn't too hard the last time I tried though, compared to The Avatar. I don't know how he's like now with the recent nerfs.
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby Darvin on Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:59 am

I just got through the Crypt for the first time now with a CYDSTEPP rogue. Was punching numbers when I realized that it wasn't just possible, but rather straightforward for a rogue with all his potions, two level ups, and CYDSTEPP to defeat Blahblah. Anyways, on to Namtar's lair...
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby aguydude on Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:13 am

The reward for defeating Bjorne is pretty weak. Sensation Stones can be reliably acquired from the Havendale Bridge Troll. A player that is tough enough to beat Bjorne is in most cases better off just ignoring him and killing the normal dungeon boss instead.
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby q 3 on Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:50 am

The Count is subject to quite a few broken strategies, anyway, considering that you can get infinite MP regeneration from him (leave enough vampires alive and then hit him with a fireball or CYDSTEPP, and you can go "explore" the vampires; works really well in conjunction with BLUDTOPOWA). I was tempted to put the Martyr Wraps on a Warlord and kill him at level 1, but I got bored when he was at about 30 corrosion. (Speaking of which, Martyr Wraps probably need to inflict something like +3 or +4 corrosion per hit to be worthwhile as anything but a novelty item, IMO.)

The piercing wand is 15 gold if it shows up randomly in a dungeon shop. Pretty snazzy; possibly too strong, although it's very situational.

I haven't found any really great uses for Goblins. Goblin Wizard might be an interesting combo, since they both want to wait until the end to start converting; Goblin Fighter worshiping Glowing Guardian has a pretty good chance of getting to level 10(11) with Enlightenment. The main problem is, once you get to level 10 as a Goblin you're weaker than anyone else at level 10; no extra stats, no extra potions. And it's not even like Goblins are guaranteed to get to level 10, since they're usually only worth an extra 35-45 exp.

I think I'd actually prefer Goblins to go back to their original alpha incarnation and convert for gold. In the alpha that was only good for farming, but now that your gold supply in the dungeon is so limited, I think Goblins could really clean up, especially on zero preparation runs. Dungeon shops have lots of nice items (like the wand) that are usually unaffordable if you're going for the purist medal.

Sanctify is probably balanced about right in terms of piety gain and ability to kill a few low level enemies, but it's still pretty boring. Maybe it could have some additional effect, like double piety if you use it to slay a higher level enemy, or some sort of experience bonus?
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby TigerKnee on Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:52 pm

Having the "I beat this dungeon with class X" thing is kind of pointless when you don't get rewards out of it.

I hope there's going to be a gold sink soon. My gold has already reached 5 digits.
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby Darvin on Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:46 pm

How about exponentially more expensive locker space with no hard cap? I'd love to have 8 or 9 locker slots, and would be willing to shell out thousands of gold a pop.

Most locker items are novelties anyways. The only ones I prepare on serious dungeon runs are Trisword, Venom Sword, and Vampiric Sword.
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Re: Beta update: Magical mystery tour

Postby zoombini on Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:17 pm

Just wanted to pop in and say I'm loving the easier quests introduced. I'm a decently good player (killed a couple of vicious dungeons through previous Monk cheesery, but that's about it), and it's really nice to have a reason to go back to some easier stuff and try out different race/class combos.
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