Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

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Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby fall_ark on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:48 pm

Wargizmo wrote:I don't see why the Tier3 class glyphs should drop randomly in dungeons in the first place. The rogue+CYDSTEPP is not the only overpowered combo possible, getting Bloodpower and Heal in the same game is pretty ridiculous. By making these glyphs available to all classes you're by and large cheapening all the tier3 heroes as well as destroying the uniqueness of those classes. I'd prefer if the Tier 3 glyphs were only available to the Tier 3 heroes.


I was doing the Double Danger quest with an Orc Bloodmage.
I was carrying a venom blade.
A CYDSTEPP glyph spawned right next to me.
It was....orgasm-inducing.
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Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:37 pm

What does getting Blood Power and Heal do different than just using Heal? Does it mathematically offer you more HP per tile because it seems like you're just trading one step for another as Blood Power turns off your HP regeneration when you use it.
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Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby Wargizmo on Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:26 pm

TigerKnee wrote:What does getting Blood Power and Heal do different than just using Heal? Does it mathematically offer you more HP per tile because it seems like you're just trading one step for another as Blood Power turns off your HP regeneration when you use it.


For wizard and sorcerer it works out way better, because wizard only pays 2 mana for the heal, and sorcerer gets an additional heal every time he casts a spell. Also if you worship Mysteria you also get piety for using the spell instead of regenerating.
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Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:02 pm

Wargizmo wrote:For wizard and sorcerer it works out way better, because wizard only pays 2 mana for the heal, and sorcerer gets an additional heal every time he casts a spell. Also if you worship Mysteria you also get piety for using the spell instead of regenerating.


Wizard is a pretty weak class now overall so I don't really care that BludToPowa is "powerful" on it.

Sorceror, sure, it gives him super powerful Heals at early levels, but the advantage lowers as he goes up in levels. Healing what, 6 HP extra with each casting isn't exactly breathtaking at high levels.

For Mystera, doesn't she give like 1 piety per Halpmeh casting in this version? You got to REALLY cast a lot of those compared to... say spending the same in CYDSTEPPs because of rounding.
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Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby bla0815 on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:23 pm

For Mystera, doesn't she give like 1 piety per Halpmeh casting in this version? You got to REALLY cast a lot of those compared to... say spending the same in CYDSTEPPs because of rounding.

MA doesn't round. You get 3 piety for every 2 casts of Halpmeh.
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Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby Darvin on Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:37 am

I'd prefer if the Tier 3 glyphs were only available to the Tier 3 heroes.

I'd like to propose an (admittedly counter-intuitive) alternative: Allow any class to select a glyph of their choice as a preparation.

At first glance, this is stripping a core class feature from the T3 classes, but remember that they can prepare a glyph of their choice in addition to the one provided by their class feature. This means T3 classes would be capable of preparing glyph combos, no exploration needed. Yes, you'd be able to walk into a dungeon as a bloodmage with CYDSTEPP sitting right next to you. Or as a Warlord with BLUDTUPOWA sitting next to you.

Yes, this would allow rogues to pick up CYDSTEPP every time, but the class is already scumming for this glyph and retiring if they don't find it. Let's just cut to the chase and let them prepare it, then balance the rogue accordingly.
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Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby q 3 on Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:45 am

Ugh, I spend all day trying to get the Purist medal against Namtar with any other combination and fail miserably - then try one Rogue run just for the heck of it and spawn right next to CYDSTEPP and a Mystera altar. You can probably guess what happened next. Being able to completely ignore HP has the additional effect of making damage types and resistances completely irrelevant - while my Berserker struggles against Namtar's physical damage forms, and my Paladin struggles against his magical damage forms, my Rogue laughs and slaughters them all without paying attention to how hard they hit.

I still like the idea of removing random dodge chance and instead having Rogues start out with some guaranteed dodge potions - probably 2 or 3 would be appropriate. Or perhaps Rogues could have a magic use penalty - something like -2 or -3 starting MP, with their HP increased slightly to compensate.

The game could really use some more sources of magical resistance - at the moment, class traits and divine boons are the only sources(?). I miss the Mage Helm and Mage Plate from the alpha, and think that a magic resist glyph could also be a useful addition (maybe something like 2 MP for temporary +10% magic resist?).

Maybe CYDSTEPP could impose a damage penalty while it's active? Like, -20% or -30%; the glyph would still be very useful, but not quite so overwhelmingly powerful. Warlords could either negate the penalty or have their low health bonus increased to 50% or 60% to compensate.

I also want to note that Frozen Trolls are the most obnoxious enemy in the entire game and seriously need to be nerfed if they're going to exist in any dungeon that's supposed to be remotely fair. If I see a level 8 or 9 Frozen Troll, I typically retire right then and there, because there's no way I'm ever going to kill it. I would recommend a drastic reduction in either their magic resistance or their attack power. Or maybe have fireballs thaw them, instantly killing them but leaving a one level lower troll in their place, like with the Cultists...
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Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby Darvin on Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:54 pm

Part of the issue is that all of Namtar's forms are particularly weak to the rogue; he's a high damage boss that relies on weakening effects to beat you. Only his first form, which has mana burn, is any real threat to a Rogue, and at this point in the dungeon you should have more than sufficient resources to plough through it. So I don't think Namtar is the best example of the Rogue being overpowered.

Come to think of it, game was originally balanced around bosses that did 75-90 damage. However, hard and vicious scenarios seem to have 100 damage as more like a baseline and routinely go far higher. I think the solution here isn't necessarily to kill CYDSTEPP, but rather to give more ways to survive such high-damage bosses so CYDSTEPP isn't the sole option in these scenarios. Also we probably need more bosses like the Indomitable. Presently he's the only attrition-based boss in the four vicious scenarios we have, all the others are hard-hitters that just scream for a CYDSTEPP rogue.
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