Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

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Re: Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

Postby Waldo0 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:50 am

I always play as a human, because It is a habit to me. :)

It will be interesting, if someone makes a calculation sheet(Human VS Orc) containing every item and conversion scenario as MS Excel.

Also, orcs are ugly, and who wants to look at an ugly sprite when you could be looking at a sexy human? :P

+1 Human Female Paladin <3
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Re: Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

Postby TheSchachter on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:24 am

Hmm... I'm not here to argue with the math here, and I'd agree to taking Orcs for pretty much all classes that receive significant attack% bonus. For the rest however, this discussion appears to be taking a rather heavy-early-conversion approach. I tend to keep and use the glyphs I pick up a lot, and convert them fairly late... the Human bonus is more valuable if you play like that, since if you're converting late then your bonus only really matters late game. And while there are still conditions in which base damage is more valuable late game, they don't often show up together unless you're doing a concerted strategy based around them (in which case, of course, you're already doing the early heavy Orc conversions).

Maybe this has to do with preps (when you start with a half-full inventory you're more likely to convert early/on-sight), or maybe I like to play sub-optimally, I dunno. But I've always appreciated the Human bonus for general play, and Orc bonus for very focused base damage stacking.
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Re: Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

Postby Wargasm on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:29 am

I generally leave glyphs on the ground until I figure if/which deity I'm going to pick, since there are benefits to converting various glyphs on over half the deities; MA, GG, and Taurog all give general bonuses for conversion and GG/Dracul for specific glyphs. JJ likes conversions in general, and Spirit Pact is more tempting if there's more stuff laying around to convert.
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Re: Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

Postby Grakor456 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:14 am

OneMoreNameless wrote:Also, orcs are ugly, and who wants to look at an ugly sprite when you could be looking at a sexy human? :P


The orc male portraits look absolutely amazing, I don't know what you're on about. :lol:

That said, preps probably are a big part of it, and the % damage items you can pick up from preps are typically better than the base damage items. Dwarven Gauntlets are just a better prep item than a Fine Sword, and Perseverance Badge or Bear Mace are both simply better than the Sword from the Blacksmith. Extra attack boosters are just gravy at that point.

In Purist games or dungeons with extended end-games (GT mainly) humans are probably better, but for everything else I find orcs just easier to play and more powerful over the course of the dungeon as a whole. While sometimes I find myself saving glyph conversions for later, most often I do run across as least a couple glyphs that I know I'm never going to use on a given character, so it's easy to just sacrifice them at that point. Even moreso if you're playing one of the tier 3 classes, since they tend to have the main glyphs that they need anyway.

Orc paladins are amazing, especially with prepped GG. Absolution + orc conversion bonus + humility = absurdly easy time getting significantly higher level monster kills.
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Re: Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

Postby Darvin on Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:38 am

+1 Human Female Paladin <3

One of the best portraits in the game, although the Male Elf Paladin still tops my favorite list.

Dwarven Gauntlets are just a better prep item than a Fine Sword

Only if you're an Orc. For everyone else, the fine sword's early game advantage puts it ahead.
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Re: Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

Postby lieronet on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:01 am

Waldo0 wrote:It will be interesting, if someone makes a calculation sheet(Human VS Orc) containing every item and conversion scenario as MS Excel.


I had actually planned on doing that at some point, I just threw up this tread in my spare time. I plan on making the graphs this weekend, I'm curious to know the exact breakpoints in a build.
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Re: Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

Postby OneMoreNameless on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:43 am

Darvin wrote:
+1 Human Female Paladin <3

One of the best portraits in the game, although the Male Elf Paladin still tops my favorite list.

Female Human Paladin is a derp with a helmet dripping over her nose. Now Female Human Fighter looks both fine and competent, while Female Human Thief conveys a strong sense of character without looking as cartoonish as some of the males do.

... I kind of wish the codex used random unlocked races for the class pages instead of just human portraits, I can't remember most of the others look like. :(
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Re: Orcs vs Humans - Mathcrafting

Postby Zaratustra on Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:23 am

400 conversion? Load the shops right, you can get 500-600 conversion.
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