Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:53 pm

Ease up Lujo. Darvin deserves being stood up for, but Wargasm doesn't deserve being textwalled to death :p . For what's it's worth, I understand wargasm's grievance, I just think the conversation this about hasn't been very productive. It's enough to just say, "hey man, be chill" and then move on. Let's not make this into something it doesn't have to be.

So, how about that Desktop Dungeons game? Pretty crazy stuff, right?
Last edited by Sidestepper on Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby Wargasm on Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:58 pm

K, bye Lujo. I'm just reporting all these posts you've made to bash me and if that doesn't solve whatever your hate-on with me is, I'll just go over to the Steam forum.
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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby Darvin on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:01 pm

EDIT - looks like a lot was written as I was writing this up. Let's everyone tone things down a notch here. This kind of hostility is doing no one any good.

Well I can't very well prep Binlor

This is also true of Zot/WHUPAZ. Binlor is a comparable (and much simpler) approach to what you were suggesting, and I find that it trivializes the difficulty of the labyrinth.

My point in stating my completion is that I've done every race and every badge in every hard-difficulty dungeon, and have a good idea of the relative difficulties of each. The Binlor/Labyrinth combination is somewhat unique; no other dungeon gets quite the same difficulty reduction from a single preparation in such a wide variety of circumstances. I do realize in hindsight that comes across as showboating, and I probably should have found a less condescending way of stating that (probably a direct comparison between Labyrinth and the other notably difficult hard-difficulty dungeons - Slime Pit, Cursed Oasis, and Magma Mines standing out from the rest of the crowd). It wasn't intended to be a "showoff" sort of thing, it was intended to be "and you can, too" sort of thing.

Seriously, though, prep Binlor in labyrinth. It won't do purist or faithless, and probably won't be much help in warmonger either (bear mace is your prep of choice there) but for every other badge and for every class it'll make the dungeon way easier.

and Darvin has repeatedly offered me condescending advice

I apologize if I come across this way. I don't intend to.

(which has been wrong every single time, to boot)

Well, talk to me about that. When I give advice, it's because it works for me, and if it's not working for other people then I'd like to know that so I can give better advice. For instance my Binlor advice; maybe I'm making unreasonable presumptions on how to use Binlor that aren't obvious, in which case I should be more specific. No one has ever said to me "I tried Binlor and I still am having trouble winning", so it's my presumption that it's good advice that sets people on the right track.

Occasionally I do get facts wrong (the "5 potion preparation" thing this morning as an example). I'm only human, so please do forgive me if I occasionally make mistakes. As for "instructing you how to count", some people do miss the fact that you can remove the health and mana potion and replace them with others. I was the one who was mistaken in this case, and in the all of two minutes until I realized my error I was looking for an explanation for the discrepancy. When I realized I was wrong, I admitted it to clear up any confusion. I had no idea you'd taken the comment personally and would have apologized if I knew you felt it was insulting.
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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby Wargasm on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:05 pm

Wow, that's some real manning up there, Darvin. Grats and thanks. Sorry this got to be an enormous thing.

But yeah, I'm going to say (and I think I said this in "Why am I so bad at The Labyrinth?") that what I'm missing is Faithless, Purist, and Feeling Parched, so Binlor's only going to help with one of those (Faithless will be Vampire/Guitar), and Purist is my current goal since it will be the hardest. Other than that I'm going to keep further discussion in the above-mentioned thread. Lujo can have this one, I'm out of it.
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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby Blovski on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:13 pm


I don't think any offence was meant by Darvin, Wargasm. It's just that a lot of the forumites here use hyperbole (broken, trivial and easymode are habitually used for good, easier and doable).

Lujo, I really don't think it's appropriate or helpful to make a massive public composite of every post where someone's gone a bit far and much as you are my textwall buddy and I love you to pieces and think you often have valid points and a lot of knowledge about the nuances of the game, it would sometimes be a lot more helpful to the discussion to just say your piece briefly and then let things go rather than getting into these fights where you feel obliged to answer every single last thing in enormous detail. Especially here when it's completely irrelevant to your thread.

On topic:

Yeah, the Zot/Whupaz interaction is off and it might be nice to make Whupaz affect current health for other reasons as well.
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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:18 pm

Eh, true.. I just had enough of that guy... I'll probably get in trouble for this after being so polite and trying to be helpfull for days... He went and reported my posts - :D If I just made a composite of every downright horrible ad hominem and entitled post he's made at just about everbody since that incident and someone in authority read it he'd be banned before you could blink...

Do I wipe everything? I love you guys too much, I don't want to lose it all because of somethign so stupid... Now the devs will just see my name and report in the same sentence and he'll get away with it again... And he derailed this bloody thread too (wallbang). Why were the bloody potions even being discussed here? :lol:
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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby The Avatar on Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:48 pm

Wow. I clearly need to check the forums more. Frankly, both Lujo and Wargasm are at fault here (and Darvin just a tiny bit for being tired and coming off as condescending because of it). Wargasm, you really didn't need to get angry at Darvin for acting condescending. You could have just passed it off, and then, if he kept being condescending, you would have a right to be angry at him. You seem a bit quick to anger in many cases, so just make sure someone hasn't come off the wrong way, made a typo, etc. Lujo, that text wall was unnecessary and so was going on about how terrible he was.

Also, both of you, there is no need to just throw around warnings. That just makes people angrier.

Now, so there is actually some value in this post beyond explaining my opinion, Wargasm, I would go gorgon for purist if you are good with gorgons, half-dragon for free knock back, or transmuters for the quickest scumming.
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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:10 pm

The Avatar wrote:Also, both of you, there is no need to just throw around warnings. That just makes people angrier.

Eh, it's guaranteed to piss the devs off, thatsfersure, since they're the ones handling them, so yeah, I overstepped my bounds quite a bit... It's a shame I only recognize these things in retrospect... Eh, the long post was actually called for - litteraly, by him trying to paint himself as being accused on "non-existant evidence", and I just happened to have the evidence. How and why? Because I was staring down a ban because I got involved in a discussion which got derailed by Wargasm and being accused that I was the one derailing it. And he's blissfully unaware of that, and keeps up the attitude I've been chewed over justly many times before. So I thought: "well, here's your bloody evidence". I woudn't've touched that thread with a 10 foot pole if there wasn't this presuptious creep telling a newbie that "the game isn't for him" because he approaches it differently than said creep. Over and over and over.

And, well, he was getting on my nerves for a while now. When I'm crazy, people at least complain, you can see it coming, I just felt like ther'll just be no end of it. I really ought to just calmly step away from the computer for a while, ban or no ban, and let him dig his own hole.

Anywho, this thread, past the point where Darvin attempted to give Wargasm advice (lower part of that post) is completely irrelevant to the main topic, and there's an actuall thread about that. I wouldn't mind wiping it at all, except he said he's reported my posts, so if I wipe them it'll look like I said something I don't stand behind. And I do.
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Re: Please fix the Whoopaz + Zot interaction

Postby dislekcia on Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:18 pm


Nope nope nope.

What we have here is a failure of people being nice to each other and they've been dealt with accordingly:

Wargasm - Banned for 1 week for going into flame derp mode. Not cool in the slightest, calm the hell down.

Lujo - Banned for 1 month for, among other things: Behaving like an ass; Knowingly posting antagonising content and instigating flaming; Knowingly posting stuff he'd been warned not to post, then pre-emptively playing the victim about the consequences (that's trolling); Speaking for the devs when he carries no authority to do so; Continuing discussions he'd already been warned about... Basically, I'm tired of Lujo's bullshit. As this is his third banning, it's now 1 month long.

Darvin - wins the internets for being an exemplary human being.
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