random but can you win ?

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random but can you win ?

Postby funkyplasma on Sun May 18, 2014 10:18 pm

i had a few questions about when a random dungeon is created

1) Does your algorithm always create a winnable dungeon for Venture Cave - my a new player and it doesn't feel like it but im getting down to the boss (most runs) i just cant beat him. - after beating him with the fighter i cant seem to win with anyone else.

2) if so does it create a max and minimum move solution that does allow for some margin of error or do you have to be perfect every run?

i was just wondering how much margin of error the system is offering as it seems very little
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Re: random but can you win ?

Postby dislekcia on Sun May 18, 2014 10:39 pm

1) No, it's not 100% guaranteed, but the enemy placement does try to minimise the possibility of completely blocking off a player's progress. We refined all the dungeons over the course of the beta to the point where our unwinnable/unfair dungeon rate is less than 0.1%

2) It doesn't, but there's actually a HUGE margin of error in the earlier dungeons - the size of that margin is roughly equivalent to the difficulty level of a particular dungeon. Even then we don't force players to be "perfect" for Vicious dungeons, only about 75% efficient, sometimes even less.
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Re: random but can you win ?

Postby TheSchachter on Mon May 19, 2014 12:01 am

As a player who has beaten every dungeon and challenge (slowly nearing 100% completion), but who tends to play with rather low efficiency for my level of play, I can attest that the game pretty much never requires absolute perfection; good long-term strategy, smart short-term decisions, and game knowledge (all of which are related!) will carry you to victory in pretty much every challenge the game throws at you. As you get to understand the game better, you'll start winning consistently :)
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Re: random but can you win ?

Postby Darvin on Mon May 19, 2014 12:43 am

funkyplasma wrote:1) Does your algorithm always create a winnable dungeon for Venture Cave - my a new player and it doesn't feel like it but im getting down to the boss (most runs) i just cant beat him. - after beating him with the fighter i cant seem to win with anyone else.

Due to its layout, Venture Cave is one of the most forgiving dungeons in the game. I've never found an unwinnable layout there. I'd suggest the Southern Swamp if you're looking for an easy dungeon to practice on. It always has Jormungandr as a boss, who is very non-threatening, and has a favorable layout.


2) if so does it create a max and minimum move solution that does allow for some margin of error or do you have to be perfect every run?

There is a very large margin of error on any dungeon. Particularly with stronger classes, getting 8 or even 9 badges on a single dungeon run isn't exactly unheardof.
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Re: random but can you win ?

Postby Lujo on Mon May 19, 2014 1:37 am

I can also attest that you can get away with artrociously sloppy and absent minded play all the way up to the final challenges (and I've gotten away with scandalously sloppy play even there at times). There is a thing that might be making all this sound condescending to you - the game lets you get away with more sloppy play after you unlock (quite a few) things and learn the ins and outs of (quite) a few mechanics.

If you're just starting out and don't have most things unlocked (shops, items, glyphs, preps, gods*, easier to kill monsters) and you're just begginning to grasp certain techniques and concepts, you probably don't have all that many options, have trouble recognizing the options you do have and have trouble seeing how whatever you do fits into an overall plan. Early kingdom / player development can be tricky.

Grats on being able to win with a fighter, though. That's not actually as easy as it sounds, especially early on. Every class plays quite differently untill you unlock all the gods and learn how to use them.**

*Gods really let you get away with stuff. Well, stuff they like, anyway.
**At which point a lot of them may start to play suspciciously simmilar XD
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Re: random but can you win ?

Postby funkyplasma on Mon May 19, 2014 6:32 am

thanks very much for the info you have inspired me to push on and conquer
push on and conquer one day we will triumph but some will perish along the way
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