Class/Race concepts

[Lujo]

[Lujo]

Also, before anyone goes all "yeah but that's just you" and "you're over 9000 power level" or "Lujo you're textwalling again" - make a note of all the people who've at one point or another said something about "getting bored with how the Orc wizard is so good at dealing with everything" etc. Also that I'm not calling anyone names, dissing anything, and all that. I'm just very curious about this whole thing, and have been for a longish time.

(It's also why I've been avoiding wizards like the plague, they're not just "appropriate for Pissorf spam", they're simply even better at it than most other guys, and I have kinda been trying to not cheeze Bloodmages too much with pissorf strats on this run because you can cheeze it even harder with them due to how early level health boosts + orcs work with preppable B2P + Pissorf. They're both overkil, but that's besides the point, the key thing with Pissorf is reliability and how and why different people seem to see it.)

[Tinker]

Normally I prefer Burndayraz. PISORF has its uses (bypassing Retaliate:Fireball being the most important, though bypassing resists and hitting multiple targets can also be useful), but the basic proposition (4-6 damage per level for 6-5 mana with no placement needs, versus 5*0.48 damage per level for 4 mana with placement needs) just favors the fireball in my book. Mystera worsens, Wizard improves the ratio, and of course bloated base damage also favors PISORF.

[Astral]

It's worth taking into account that if you push targets into monsters the damage jumps to 2*5*0.48 and if your prefer hitting your main foe harder, then there are walls to get 5*0.6 instead.
Also corrosion triggers more often from Pissorf. The lower cost makes it better for charging items too.
It hasn't been mentioned here, but Pissorf is also fantastic for countering blinkers.

[Tinker]

[MTaur]

Cross-posted from the "can't, shouldn't, won't exist" thread because I didn't actually make this completely stupidly broken on purpose, so maybe it's ok... Obviously the CP cost might need tweaking.


Mummy
Conversion bonus: Remove one level of one debuff at random every 20 CP. (Stacks as a preventative if not currently afflicted. Multiple procs for a single conversion allowed.)

Curse - Attacks erode 5% enemy resistance. Gain a stack of Curse when you take damage.
Damnation - Burndayraz inflicts one stack of Corrosion to enemy and to self.
Rot - Poison strike: 2. Weakness: 2 per level up.

[Lujo]

[Lujo]

And a thing about fixed damage resistance on monsters - Pissorf was changed to be a damage glyph in the beta. Before that the only thing a modest ammount of fixed damage reduction would've countered was regen fighting (or rather low damage resist stacking, so Monks). If the decision not to include it as unnecessary was made before Pissorf was made into what it is now, it probably made way more sense than it does now.

Now it just means that there's no "hard counter" to Pissorf spam specifically. Big health on monsters is the same obstacle for everyone, except Pissorf spam is kinda particularly good against it because you can do damage to the big health guy while killing another guy which you have to do anyway. That way one guy drops dead from a mana spike, and the big health guy loses enough health to become just a regular health guy.

If pissorff didn't bypass resists (which kinda pushes it over the edge in terms of "apply everywhere" anyway), then having lowish ammount of damage resistance on a monster type / boss would really be valid design space to explore, as Astral has noted - you could make monsters which shut down monks and pissorf spam hard but don't impact other guys that much because they wouldn't need bigass stats.

[Tinker]

[Lujo]

^ I think you're undervaluing the benefits of being able to kill a lvl 8/9 at something like lvl 3-5 without actually investing resources into it while at the same time doing damage on the boss. Yes, it drops dead before the boss, but that means you ding. Then you just slam the boss into the next one, doesn't have to be a lvl9, can be whatever.

The Dwarf Tinker run in CO had me ding a bunch of times with literally nothing invested during the fight simply because I started early and stuff I was slamming the boss into kept dropping. Wheytwut the boss into the popcorn bowl - you'll never run out of stuff to slam him into. That's kidna extreme prepwork, but works fine with just 1-2 other things besides the other boss. And you don't even need Wheytwut for it.

But there's no need for a Pissorf contest, I'm not saying Firebal's unusable or anything, but that with all the other restrictions that keep people thinking Pissorf is a utility glyph, clearing up the tooltip would remove an unnecessary one, and having stuff around which pissorff doesn't work well on would be a good idea, because in practice it's way stronger than burndayraz (by a wide margin) regardless of whether it takes experience/skill/whatever to become aware of it / good at it.

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You could say I went all sinergistic with being an Orc and a EDIT: Wizard and all that, but I only used B2P like... 3 times. Regular difficulty and all that, but I'm lvl 2 and I got 2 lvl 10 guys waiting to be murdered. Exactly how could I've better invested my resources?

And I didn't even cheeze it, tbh. I explored a bit, wheytwuted 5 guys, converted some stuff. My base damage is lower than anyone has at lvl 5. And if I was just a level 5 guy with Pissorf and some regular spellcasting junk, I'd be able to have two high level targets popped with even less investment.

Extreme sinergy, yes, but also results kinda beyond extreme, and had I made a video of it, you'd be able to see that it didn't exactly take much effort. There's 5 guys in that dungeon kinda designed that at least one challenges whatever you are, except none of them challenge the pissorff guy (well, the phys resist guy would).

And again, I'm not calling for a nerf to Pissorff at all, just saying - if it's not being more widely used, it's probably due to it's tooltip on top of any inherent complexity to it's optimal uses, which is unnecessary. And I'm saying that there's room for a monster ability that puts a cramp on it specificaly.

Other things benefit from setup, too, Pissof just gives too much too reliably with setup, and doesn't really need that much setup most of the time. Here you've got to find and port 5 guys (eventually), you get nothing much from your gods (Binlor and Mystera, got a Refreshment off her). One would think it'd be more iffy, but nope.

Here's all all 5 of them dead and also most of the lvl 8-9 (well the ones I ran into anyway).



Most of the time it would take effort and resources to kill half of those high level non-boss guys, and even more often you simply wouldn't be able to kill a single one on a VT run. With Pissorf, they all just drop dead for free dings and XP, making Pissorf (even not especially sinergistc pissorf) probably the strongest thing in the game. At least it feels (an looks) that way...

If anything happend to lower it's power indirectly, I can't honestly say it'd be a bad thing or that it would lower it below "very, very, VERY powerful". If anything happened to the tooltip, though, this would be easier to pick up on for the average player. If the statistics are showing people prefer Fireball, or think of Pissorf as complicated, or think of Pissorf specialists "not being there" I'd say it's mostly because of the tooltips.