Rat Monarch

[Lujo]

^ True, true, but simply getting gobbos fat bars does what you want to do, the assassin doesn't use the health for much if you're not getting hits on bossess, any other goblin just fights fat stuff during the boss fight while pelting the boss with spells. Just saying. I was surprised at how little difference there really is, only truly noticed it lately (not that there isn't any, or that the Assassin isn't powerful before anyone has a stroke XD).

[Darvin]

Okay, so Rat Monarch is definitely doable in the shorter vicious levels. I took an Acid Caster into Vicious Halls of Steel and won first try. Preps were Yendor (transmutation fodder), Black Market (moar gold), Earthmother, Extra Mana Boosters, Elite Items (generally better CP fodder), Shield (CP fodder), and transmutation seal. Very tight game, since I accidentally activated Sir Thrawn with a misclick during the boss fight.

Edit: tried it with JJ this time in Dragon Isles. Again, a first attempt victory. I left LEMMISI alone for fighting the Firstborn to bypass the Matron's guards, so it was a relatively smooth game even with the lost inventory slot for going with JJ. I have to say that Transmutation/Yendor is working very well, giving me 100 CP and 45 GP extra. With JJ's chaos avatar adding a free level and 100 CP on top of that, hitting level 10 is totally doable.

So overall, my thoughts are that the Rat Monarch is a very reliable spellcasting spiker with two caveats: one you must go all-in in the preps, and two the dungeon can't be too long of an endurance slog.

[Lujo]

Told you, basically what you do with any spellcaster, except he needs a bit of cheeze for preppage. Since he does a lot of spiking at high levels and has trouble killing more than one guy at a time, he should be killer with PoS. PoS doesn't need much inventory, and has about as much gameplay as the Rat does, levels just drop in on their own accord - the rat just doesn't have to bother PoSing other stuff into bossess for no-brain dings, he has his own "did nothing got levels" thing built in. It's funny if he gets scraped for being unfit for the game and has unsatisfying gameplay, because... it's just PoS gameplay. Heck, he's practically balanced compared to regular PoS because it takes a bit of effort/investment for him to refill. If they wanted this version to be the final one all he'd need is the ability to get proper XP (or CP or whatever) from boss kills, and an ability to get out of places where others are cut off for Namtars Lair and Naga City (because of the inventory constraint). If they'd scrape him for not being satisfied with him - what's PoS still doing being what it is? It's the same thing, except with 0 penalties/opportunity costs/variance. That's basically that.

Not sure about VGT, though, haven't done it with the Goat yet.

[Darvin]

I took an attempt at Hard Gaan-Telet, and I was stopped on the third floor due to fireball retaliation. Fireball Relation isn't a big problem on bosses (since running out of HP just triggers a full restore), but on regular monsters it stops the Rat Monarch cold. Magic resist monsters were also an issue. He's just really dependent on BURNDAYRAZ spiking and struggles horrifically when that doesn't work due to his lack of other options.

With the massive CP of Gaan-Telet (I got the double sensation stones) combined with my Yendor Transmutation and JJ prep, I actually ended up with more levels than Rats at the end. Gaan-Telet may be the one place where he actually plays like the devs envisioned. I don't think he's got the staying power for VGT, though. That 5000 HP 50% resist boss at the bottom isn't keeling over to that.

[Tinker]

@ Darvin, how much did you use the Rat's regen ability in your successful Vicious runs? My limited experience gave me the impression that the ability is worse than it looks (i.e. if you need to use it, you're generally losing already).

[Darvin]

[secondserpentarius]

Mage Plate is godly for Rat Monarch now, as is Bear Mace. Martyr Wraps, not so much, as they cut into his HP. As Darvin said, JJ is welcome. Not so sure about the prep drawback on RM however...

[Darvin]

Martyr Wraps are a useless prep, strictly inferior to a Sensation Stone (or anything worth 80 or more CP)

Mage Plate sounds awesome, but I'd still like to test Yendor for an immediate level 5 promotion. This guy is obscenely dependent on blackspace, and skipping the early game entirely sounds very appealing for him.

[Sidestepper]

I'm going to try the Earthmother acid caster approach for this new version of the Monarch. A few hits of Vineform is cheap and gives the Monarch some much needed health. Acid caster generally wants to eschew melee almost entirely, but then again, acid casters don't usually have self-stacking corrosion. Acid casters usually burn about 3/4 of the map at 1st level, which goes well with the Monarch.

[caviar]

Turns out that CYDSTEPP is an okay find for the little bugger:

https://i.imgur.com/PoHXmN3.png
https://i.imgur.com/lnU6gN4.jpg

Pretty heavy on your resources, but strong on a map with few bosses nevertheless. CYDSTEPP leaves you no reason to kill anything before your first boss, and pretty much trivializes VT runs in any shorter dungeon. Namtar's Ward+Transmutation Seal make for an incredibly potent prep combination, giving you both an initial CP boost and money to fuel your shop regen ability. Speaking of regal perks: it also synergizes fantastically with CYDSTEPP. Get your mana pool up to 16 (assuming mystic balance), and this guy turns into a better warlord than anyone else could ever imagine to be.

That being said, I don't think this method is broken. Much like his kamikaze compatriot (may he rest in peace), this rat can't spike his way much further than through 2-3 bosses (be it with underlings or with shops) . It also faces a dilemma similar to how elves interact with refreshment: it can't both have the big CP cake and eat it. Not to mention how both poison and manaburn stop it cold. Sure, there's the ward/orb to remedy this, but scumming for either of those and an early CYDSTEPP at the same time is pushing it.

Definitely liking this version more than the previous one. Most vicious endeavors seem pretty doable, except for VGT - I really don't think that's going to happen the way the rat is now.