Another bloggy playthrough diary :)

[Astral]

For VT NC I had a lot of success with Orc Assassins of Binlor. Cheeze Binlor for damage boosts, MR and piety and Apheelsik will take care of most of your bosses. If you prep/buy the Viper Ward the only boss that can represent any sort of challenge will be Frank.

[Lujo]

Ty for the replys and that's a really, really good writeup. I allready have the assassin done in NC and also the Wizard, so I really wanted to do it with a Gnome Sorcerer. Both for the nice writeup and for old times sake (there's a very good reason I don't get set up with them by the PQI XD). But...

I couldn't. I've done about 10 or so runs, let's say 6-7 of them got a few got off the ground while several were just boxins which I rerolled. I got to Kinnisch 2 times, and got to the last row 1 time, and got pwned before that let's say 4 times.

I started out with prepping the CB and hoping for some of the other junk, but I got nothing spellcastery whatsoever quite often (had good setups for a hybrid, but that wouldn't really work on VT NC, so I didn't bother). Then I changed it up and started prepping Elven Boots because the entirety of other stuff is Quest Items, and CB is also the cheapest of them to buy (by far the most important from what I've seen, though).

I can't jump into JJ at any point, to be honest, because if I took Flames there's just no way to get piety with him. Heck, there's no way to get piety with him even if I don't take flames, but Flames is +2 levels at lvl 8 and I can get behind that. Flames + Battlemage Ring, also quite fine and dandy. The problem, though, is that without the CB it doesn't have enough fuel, and even with the CB, without B2P it doesn't have enough fuel. If I had B2P on the last attempt, I think it would've worked but I'm not really sure. I did wrangle a CA out of JJ on one of the attempts, but then I was unable to do anything to Kinisssch at all.

Also, I've yet to see Endiswall. I remember it being crucial topside from the purist run, as the mace isn't always guaranteed to find me the sub. My glyphs are also all over the place all the time.

I think 3 things:

1. I'm doing something wrong. I aim (and get) 25 mana one way or another, this might be too little. I descend at lvl 6 just before lvl 7, this could be too high or too low, not sure, but it's the easiest. It might be possible to get more piety out of Mystera, I'm not sure I'm doing enough on that front either. I always take Alchemist Pact right away, this also might not be right, maybe I should wait for consensus. I always take flames before I fight the first boss, sometimes during the level. I do my best to use Yendor at lvls 9 or 10. I make small mistakes, and sometimes I don't get the secret sub.

2. Sorcerer might not in fact be the best man for the job. Maybe I'm going down too late or something, but only one of his class abilities is truly useful for a dedicated mystera setup with flames and all that, and while the extra mana is definitely nice and wrecks stuff hard anywhere else flames + VT just makes the rest of him well and truly useless.

3. I don't mean no harm to anyone, and I honestly tried and tried, but Fireballs seems impossibly demanding. The difference in what you need for them to work and what you need for Pissorf to work is staggering. I haven't been trying PoS on VT Naga City, so I'm running them against what's probably the toughest run in the game, and that does figure into it, but... From the last run which got Kinnisch down to half health before it broke down, I saw that Mystic Balance, Crystal Ball with extra gold, extra gold sub and Gloves of Midas, being a Gnome with Alchemist Pact, Flames, Elven Boots , Battlemage Ring and a total of 25 mana wasn't enough. It would require at least B2P (and/or possibly Apheelsick) on top of that if not also Dragonsoul. And I had a really favorable boss setup, and I had a Wheytwut to farm piety and explore with topside. I'm not sure I could scum that up.

Now, it does do impressive work when it comes togather, and the writeup was expert level, I have to say. I just have to note that while PoS might not even work here, its highest output setup is uncomparably simpler. Being an Orc cuts you off from Gnome refills, but it also removes the need to push mana and take Flames or have the Battlemage ring which then opens up a lot of possiblities, and the lower cost lets you spam the ball faster and more efficiently, and your popcorn munching is not affected by Flames or Burning. Also, you don't have to be a Sorcerer meaning you can get use out of B2P easier. I just have a feeling that if there's a way to win it with a PoS Orc Bloodmage, I'd save me a lot of time and effort to just go about trying that just because it would take fewer things to come togather. And anything but the Assassin or possibly a crazy-ass Resistance stacker really needs stuff to come togather for this, I feel. I wanted to say this because I totally dig the fireball writeup and I'm greatful for the advice and it got me excited and spamming runs trying to pull it off, so if I swap over to a PoS guy and end up winning I don't want you to feel let down or disenheartened or anything.

I've got Berserker, Warlord, Half-Dragon, Sorcerer, Bloodmage, Chemist, Rat and the Goat undone here.

- Berserker can stack resists, but not the right ones.
- Warlord is usually cheezy as hell, but I'm not sure if there's enough refills to go around.
- I'm sorta sure Half-Dragon could do it if I could stack him up right, but it's kinda difficult on NC. Solo Binlor might even do the trick, but I don't really feel like run after run of Binlor farming untill it works or doesn't...
- Sorcerer needs hardcore scumming/veto stuff to get it done with fireballs, and I'm not sure if a hybrid approach is viable. I'm also not sure what I'd get out of him as a PoS guy, tbh, compared to the BM.
- BM might be able to PoS it. Might. I gave wizards more spotlight because it's easier to see how busted they are with PoS, but BM's are about as nuts, allthough it's not the best ever map for them.
- Chemist? Only thing he's got going here is mana regen and possibly bonkers piety topside, could it work? Gnome Fireball Guy with Apheelsick? Orc Possperson with CB?
- Rat? If it's PoS, he seemed to do hella fine in Namtar's Lair, but he's much better if he's not cut of from the shops. I'm actually curious if this would work, but I'm not sure I want to attempt it. Binlor for Stoneskins on one guy per vawe, then just epic Possdown of doom? Farm a ton of piety topside, desecrate Taurog, grab Scolars for getting hits in maybe? Hmmmm.
- Goat - no way, just no. Well, hmmm. Hmmmm. I'd have the whole topside to farm whatever god I choose, if I start him off with a Yendor it might even not be so crazy. But it would still take spamming runs untill it clicks even if it's doable. He can PoS like a crazy bastard though, dem refills are nuts.*

*Also one fun thing I discovered recently - Scholars Pact on a Goat. It's awesome, you get full health overheal on dings, it's like you're a regular guy and not a Goat

[Tinker]

[Lujo]

[Tinker]

Ok, just one thing... When I originally did the NC VT I was just in the middle of switching veto slot items and I wasn't vetoing anything. Which is why if you're doing the same, prep Crystal Ball, as that is more important than Mage Plate for the gauntlet part. A well-used Crystal Ball will get you almost where you need to be. So then all you need is 2-3 more castery things (Keg of Mana, Battlemage Ring, Dragon Soul, etc.) to pad it a bit, but to be honest probably less if you have a good glyph draw - i.e. PISORF / B2P help downstairs, ENDISWAL / WEYTWUT help upstairs (I had none of these in my recent VT win).

And I play Naga City topside *very tight*. I want to squeeze everything because there's no turning back. Every XP, every CP, every gold, every Piety point, every Boon (to allow me putting off the altar activation). Also, you'll have 3-4 level-ups downstairs; 2-3 Crystal Ball activations; 2 schadenfreudes; which means, most bosses you can kill with minimum amount of expendables.

Also, two more things, taking Refreshment still topside gives you a bit of an edge there. You wouldn't spend anything you can take down, but excess glyphs that you have to leave behind anyway might as well restore half you mana while you're at it. And I time Yendor for one of the big-health fights (Frank or SMM normally) because that doesn't pop the burning stacks, and this is a big advantage for the second volley of fireballs. Also, this is why Schadenfreudes are normally the first things I fire off, against bosses that can be killed with two volleys, because there I don't mind so much popping the burn stacks.

By the way, given the placement of the bosses, Naga City is probably a level where you could leverage PISORF very efficiently. I didn't have it on either of my VT runs, but it would have certainly made things a lot easier.

[Lujo]

Ahh, very good tips about the schadenfraudes, I did make good use of Alchemist Pact for that purpose, but it cut into my piety generation, and my glyph draw was very lacklustre most of the time, especially against what I found in shops. If I found anythign spellcastery - glyphs were complete duds, and vice versa. Rigging the shops via Veto's should do the trick, especially if I go tight topside (and if the damned endiswall actually spawns), when I landed a semi-decent setup I got rather far. I'm not at a workable PC right now, and I'm actually working on something, but as soon as I get a chance I'll try to get it done

EDIT: First attempt got to Kinisssch, but I couldn't get to lvl 8 topside, barely got to half past six and I even had a ton of gear, because I found Fireball really late (did find endiswall). I found the free Elven Boots and the Battlemage Ring to go with the CB, had Mystic Balance and Refreshment, did the swap into JJ right, even got a ding out of alch pact - had B2P (!), still nothing. Damn. I'll try again.

[Tinker]

[Lujo]

Sucess! Triumph! I totally beat VT Naga City with, err, well, with the Gnome Sorcerer of Mystera and having the whole thing pretty much drawn to fine detail by a Gnome Sorcerer of Mystera specialist, and it still took me 15 or so tries, but I did it!



It's not that I'm wired for Pissorf, it's that the damned thing caused epic levels of skill decay, on my previous playthrough I got all the VT's with a Goblin Sorcerer of Mystera and the VT was since nerfed. I forgot how to bloody well play the actual game to the point that it took me 15 tries to beat a map with a Mystera Pyro O.O I also played way too many hybrids which use both bars, playing a non Pissorf guy who only uses one bar took a wile to adjust to, it's a pretty extreme build when you get down to it. Very powerful, but very "outlier".

But the correspondance was great, and folks can learn a lot from it and you really got the Gnome Pyro down to a science, I have to say. The game was stubbornly setting me up for a regular sorcerer not Mystera Cheeze even after I vetoed 5 things to get to get them out of the pool.

This is how it finally went down right:



See, the game was REALLY persistant about not giving me anything worth compressing, not glyphs, not items, so I just swapped it over to a Translocation seal which let me have 60 gold to do the JJ swap and that worked out great. However, I had simmilar things happen on other runs, this run was, compared to the average one a huuuuuge luckout, and compared to an actual luckout nothing special.

Look at those Glyphs! Endiswal right off the bat - ton of piety. Imawal! Levels! Getindare! Burning last hits you can pre-cast! But look at the items - Gloves of Midas? Was very important for juggling gods, but not necessarily what I was looking for. Piercing Wand? Well, took two obstacles out of it (and as opposed to the currently bugged skill decay inducing horrible glyph of terminaly gamebreaking undertestedness, fireballs do in fact have their obstacles!), but did nothing but that. Dragon Soul - that thing kinda won it, more spam more extra spam. But...

No Mage Plate, no Elven Boots, no Battlemage ring. -.-' No mana pendant, even, I was stuck on 23 mana! No B2P, that's quite a bummer on a run like this. And still, this was the best damned setup the game would give me in over ten runs, even after vetos. If I had fewer Dragon Soul procs, who knows if this would've even worked, truly, and there's no way it would've worked with this lousy a setup without the ball.

That's why I don't generally rave about Fireballs being overpowered. Mystera is a bit too self-sufficient, because this thing did do the several thousands of damage and beat what's essentially the toughest run in the game. But you have to twist a class and a specific race all the way around and use various glyhs, score various stuff, and all that. It's inclusive. Epic when it works, got it's "oh, crap" moments and runs that never get off the ground and you gotta have game knowledge and mind what you're doing and you do care what dungeon you are in, etc.

I'm glad I did all this, and I'm very glad fireballs got some spotlight in this thread, I had a lot of fun with them the last time around and people reading the thread couldn't really see that from how this playthourgh turned out. And I'm also glad the last non VGT badge is out of there and that I did it with something I haven't yet done on NC. Huzzah!

Big big big thanks to Tinker for writing it up, that there was a great extreme Fireball guide! However, if you want it to go as nuts as this, you do have to veto stuff, and you need to play it quite, quite tight. And if a place has fireball counters, you better have countermeasures and a plan.

Also, not a single Pissorf spawned in all those tries. So even if I wanted to give that a shot with a Gnome Sorcerer I couldn't, and it's not a bad plan either (built in flames/battlemage ring that still lets you melee, more CB churn, lower satisfactory mana thresholds, essentially no true obstacles due to bug, can buddy up with fireball nicely - tack on the Gnome refills instead of the usual dings and knockback the nicely placed bossess to oblivion. Might even work.).

EDIT: One important thing I forgot - ENDISWALL. Bringing that thing downstairs and using all the extra mana that would otherwise be wasted to open up future exploration was HUGE. HUGE. ENORMOUS! It turned into a ghetto B2P/Apheelsick. I have not seen either it or getindare (maybe one getindare) in all the tries before this one.

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Also I managed to do it just in time before the daily ran out :

[Tinker]

[Lujo]