Extreme Edition Spoilers

[Lujo]

Thank you very much, I'll check it out.

[Kami]

I hate the gorgon.

Giving the vessel of lekon 2 corrosion every time he absorbs a goat is a really really bad idea, if you worship mystara and also have earthmoter and blue bead.

The gg desecration allowed me to have enought piety to use entaglement and kill the goat.

The amulet of yendor was there, because I am really bad at playing the gorgon, especially in a dungeon where you explore half of the map before you find a possible to kill enemy.

[zayyeh]

Seems like you finished last quest we prepare for you in this release. Now Scrooge!

What are you feeling about it? Did you like quests and challenges, would you change difficulty of some dungeons? Would be cool to hear feedback from you (apart from those bugs you already mentioned)

[Kami]

[The Avatar]

Alright, I'm going to go through this list one at a time to try to draw you out more on a few of these.

Dislikes:
1. It is identical to the algorithm for Berserker Gold (just for the record), but can you explain the monster placement issues a bit more? Or give an example or something? Worst comes to worst we can change the layout (it used to be labyrinth which was hell...).
2. Yep. He's probably in the works for a redesign for the next release.
3. Err, ok? I concur that he is a real jerk of a foe and probably best avoided, but given slow power for magician they are still fightable. Might nerf their base health a touch, but no promises.
4. I assume you mean the boss reward for Lekon's Table (not the new Bazaar preps)? I sort of see what you mean, although it is the only thing that supplies the new effect more than a one off. Certainly worth considering giving it a few static effects though. It's original design intent was to be used to make leveling easier then be converted for its whopping 125 CP.
5. I know. I was told it was impossible coding-wise though, so sorry.
6. This is intentional. The magician is supposed to be more of a fireballer than a melee specialist, and he's pretty darn good at it already. If that was buffed too much more then he would be more of a slowing-based fighter than a make, IMO.
7. Hmm, I personally find that the most interesting part of the dungeon. You get almost no blackspace, which makes it very interesting to tackle with normally blackspace-reliant classes. Maybe that's just me?

Middle:
1. Fair. I never much liked generalist classes like the Tinker myself, so I totally understand where you are coming from.
2. Not sure I get where you are coming from here. I sort of see you for Flooded Foundry (although it still has its DL-esque subdungeon and a unique layout mechanic that inter plays with the final fight), but I have to respectfully disagree on Lekon's Table. LT has both a universal monster effect (which to be fair is a lot tamer now), but then it also has a boss with 3 different special triggers. Perhaps I am mistaking your point, but at least in terms of *FLASHY EXTRA VICIOUS EFFECTS* I would say they have them.
3. Yeah, Workshop is sort of a silent favorite of mine (except Lavavein). I really like the trade off of the boss powering up as you do. I can't argue with Scrapyard, but I counter by saying that it is just a normal dungeon. Do you find Western Jungle, etc. particularly interesting?

Likes:
1. Yes. It's also nice to work in an effect that was only on a vicious item previously.
2. Definitely my favorite class challenge as well, although I personally also really enjoy playing Bard Gold.
3. Thank you very much!
4. Funny, I actually find it a vey boring Item. It is definitely good, but in terms of affecting play I find it doesn't do much. Sort of like the Dragon Sheild. Kickass, but just sort of there.
5. We plan to make a total of 4 new badges. And the next one in the works is a bit more intense and run affecting than Scrooge. Kind of like vicious token, but hopefully more interesting?
6. You have no idea how happy this makes me. Those things are hellish to design. Actually, if people wanted to design their own and submit them, I would love that, although I totally understand if the interest isn't there.

Whew, that was a text wall and a half. Sorry to just drop that, but I would really appreciate your response to/elaboration on some of those points. And, of course, thank you for the feedback. Hopefully by the time everything is said and done we can move a lot of those dislikes to likes.

[Kami]

Thank you for your quick response.

First some additional stuff i forgot to write:
-The membership discount is to small. The other bezar preps are more worth it.
-The Refund wand is fine, but I think it is a tad to powerfull.

Okay lets elaborate some of these points:

Dislikes:
1.The algorythim sometimes decides to shove all mosters around the same level on one corner or side.
Once I experienced that all monster higher than L2 where in the upper right corner.

These are for examples of 4 dungeons in a row:

1.Half bad, there is some even shuffeling, but most of the high level guy are on the left part.


2.Actually kinda okay.


3.Not as bad as the first, but there are still some oddities.


4.This is nonsense.


In beserker gold is the wasting of blackspace not so problematic, because you can use all of the blackspace to level up and then do fireball shenanigans.
In a dungeon where you have points where you must regenerate health to fight the L10 goats and then you also have to do it with gorgon which wastes additional space, this algorythim becomes frustrating.

Middle:
2. My problem with LT is probably just, that the challenge is conserving blackspace. It just to underwhelming for a vicious dungeon(dont get me wrong this dugeon is hard) in the sense that it doesnt challenge to adapt like the other vicious dugeons. Hope that helps.

3. I really like the western jungle and the Northern desert and southern swamp+eastern tundra try to challenge you in diffrent ways.
The ancient scrapyard has a boring boss. The quirk of the dungeon is interesting, but it doesnt fit to a normal difficulty dungeon.

Positive:
4. Maybe to scroll could also give first strike or also increase your magic resistances by half as much. This would make it mored dynamic.

As always just ask, if something is uncertain.

Edit: I just noticed that the ticketed effect doesnt show up in monster statuses. Is this intended or is this a bug?

[Kami]

Is this the intended way to beat the 3rd puzzle? I've got 3 health potions and one fortitude tonic to spare...

[The Avatar]

Dislikes:
1. Ok, I see what you mean with the layout now. Not certain if it will change or what it might change to yet, but thanks for the sceeemshots.
2. Yeah, Refund Wand will probably jump to 30% and Membership Badge will probably gain a lot more CP.

Middle
1. Hmm... I'm still not certain I'm getting your point yet. I sort of see what you mean, in that it is important to be able to kill the level 10s, but I would never have framed is as a blackspace challenge. Considering that Lekon's Chosens are in for a pretty significant buff, do you think reshrouding the entire map when you kill the first boss would make it more interesting?
2. WEYT, WUT? Please explain. I would agree that Northern Desert offers the most interesting options of the starters, but I'm really not getting how the others challenge you in different ways. Bth WJ and ET both streamline you towards melee (as does sort of SS, but it is so trivial as to not be relevant). And doesn't the Scrapyard force you to play differently? You don't have the option of midnight level ups, and he's the only normal directional boss that makes you deal with damage over 75. I understand if he's boring compared to others, but I need further explanation on why he falls short compared to other normal directionals.

Like:
1. It's already pretty freaking strong, and I think I sort of overstated my point. It does create some options in that there's extra value in popcorn which you can use to stack stone skin before hits from the boss, but the might does not stack. Therefore longer fights make you choose between stacking stone skin and having more might. That sort of thing.

Edit; Thank you for noticing. Codexing is very tricky to work with...

Puzzle: Now it is! Do you mind PMing me your exact moves? It looks pretty similar to mine although clearly you innovated in some effective fashion. I'll have to adjust the puzzle accordingly.

[Kami]

Middle

1. I think, that reshrounding the map and giving the goats a buff(and maybe random traits) would make this dungeon feel more vicious.

2. I agree, that WJ forces you to play melee, but it also gives you less blackspace and the boss trys to prevent regen shenanigans. ET has also less blackspace and the vampires are trying to make it worse. The boss forces melee play ,but it is also possible to do a magic approach.
I agree, that SS is just boring.

The scrapyard boss should have some kind of quirck, I dont what, but it should have an direct interaction with the dugeon quirck.

[The Avatar]

Whew, sorry to keep drawing you out on this stuff, but really I appreciate the thoughts.

1. Good. I like the random traits idea too.
2. Doesn't that make WJ and ET extremely similar? Still, I see your point moreso now, although you've given me a task and a half in making the boss work with the dungeon effect.

Anyways, there will be a patch this Friday which hopefully addresses some of this stuff.