Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

[Nurator]

Huh... I finished the puzzle. But somehow I had a lot of ressources to spare. Shall I optimize it and look at what HP the enemies could have?

[shade_of_ox]

Victory!
http://prntscr.com/lculhx


Here's a weird crash. It happened after I pushed the Gilded Goat into the wall and then stood directly next to him (where the statue should have spawned) when hitting him. After I clicked "report", he spawned the statue to the left of me instead, and I was able to win anyway. I surmise the game tried to spawn a statue outside of the map. Even though I hit him with reflexes, he gained resists (he didn't have them before), so it clearly didn't react properly to something.
http://prntscr.com/lcukow

Aside from that, very well done by you guys! This really had the Triple Quest "feel" as it were, a really long, difficult run with an actual story. It really felt pretty epic when I was playing through it.

[Nurator]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

Nice, your run was totally different from mine I focused mainly on getting regen fight itmes, not on pure power

Finally beating that thing feels so accomplished, it had the perfect difficulty in retrospect.
What do you think of the reward?
What are your next goals? Puzzles? Anything else left to do for you?

For the sextuples puzzle, here are my optimized HP for the enemies, with difference in parantheses


For Family Matters: I didnt attempt the remaining two puzzles yet, mostly because I dont like the amount of potions you have. Puzzles are supposed to teach you mechanics that you can actually use in real dungeons (A few runs ago, the difference between winning and losing was that I remembered to use Schadenfreude against a Manaburn enemy as I had learned before). Having 11 or 12 health potions will NEVER happen.

So as a suggestion: Try to reduce the number of enemies/bosses to a more reasonable amount while still conserving the main idea of the puzzle, just boiled down to its most crucial parts (e.g. in the Naga City style puzzle there are several bosses that are functioning identically, remove half of them and half of the potions)
I will gladly try them out right now to give you feedback what to remove, but as they are right now, I dont think they fit the remaining awesomeness of the mod.

[shade_of_ox]

The reward is pretty nice. I'm switching it to A Kingdom's Lament, my personal favorite. Also, it's nice to know all the official names of the different tracks.

Just out of curiousity, are there plans to include any more tracks? I realize that's a pretty monumental task, because making music is nowhere near as easy as editing sprites, but I think it would be really cool.

As for what I have left, it's going be puzzles and rainbowing all the dungeons, again. That should keep me occupied until the South, hopefully. Probably I'll start with the base dungeons and then move on to the EE dungeons afterwards. A shame I can't access Goatperson, maybe I'll just buy the DLC again for the purposes of trying to clear EE Vicious with it. Scouting Orb in particular seems to be a very strong option for him, though it's almost certainly not worth more than Yendor.

I don't think everything in every puzzle has to be perfectly optimized. In fact that can sometimes make the solution obvious. So long as there is only one unique solution, I think it's fine if there are a few spare damage or health.
On the other hand, I do agree that puzzles should be meant to teach you game mechanics - on the other hand, the Master Pack is something different, and isn't so much meant to teach you new tech as it is to test your knowledge.

That being said, Family Matters just seems rather needlessly complicated. 12 health potions, 5 mana potions (basically), a custom Might potion, all just are kind of a ridiculous amount of resources to manage. I haven't tried it in earnest, but it's just annoying that there are so many different tools you can use and so many places to use them. The Grandmaster, Heavy Reading, Grudge Match, and Sextuplets all either don't have many tools to use, or they do have a lot of tools but the places to use them are quite obvious. This "puzzle" just feels like randomly trying different approaches hoping one will bring you closer to an answer. It just doesn't have the same flow to it that the other puzzles do, at least that's how it feels to me.

[srid]

Congratulations!!!

Also thanks for the crash report. Your interpretation is correct, and there is a bug when the boss is on the side of the map,
and we try to spawn a statue outside of the map. I just fixed it.
I also made pisorf interaction of form 4 consistent with form 1, and we'll make petrification add 10 damage too.

Good luck on rainbowing everything, don't hesitate to mention the most interesting runs.

About adding music, I know that it was something that has been tried before I joined the team, but I don't know how it went exactly.

As for the GoatPerson, I'm sorry but the main issue is that the game needs to connect to QCF or Steam server to unlock it, and we deactivated this functionality to prevent the mod messing with your online save.
The only way I know of so far is to unlock it in your vanilla save game, and then start the mod from that save file.

We haven't come up with a satisfying solution so far for that.
@dislekcia we would love to have your opinion on this.

[shade_of_ox]

The thing is, that is how I started the mod file - by loading it in my 100% file, which did have Goatperson unlocked. I don't own the Goatperson on Steam, only on GOG, so since I'm running it on Steam now I probably just can't access it because I don't own it (even though the file has completion data for it). So I think if I buy the DLC, I should be able to access it.

I will say, I don't think there's a good reason to make petrification add 10 damage. As is, IMAWAL is barely worth taking with you, and this is the only purpose it could be used for (and PISORF, which is already necessary, fulfills the same purpose anyway). So really all IMAWAL would be doing for you would be saving you 3 mana, at the cost of a glyph like APHEELSIK or something.

If I were to guess, the biggest issue with new music is finding someone who can match Danny B, rather than a technical issue. After all, you're already able to put new sprites into the game.

Nothing too interesting incoming for the next while as I rainbow the Normals/Hards. Vicious should be more interesting...

[maya]

@nurator I do have to say that at least from what I know as it currently stands in grudge match the only way to kill anything would be through a ridiculously high fireball spam using the 11 potions (and blood curse) or starting the player with 3 vendor's which in itself is not right or really interactive. I do admit that family matters to me seems cool in thematic and design but off putting as it gives the widest field to work with but is probably fine tuned as well meaning only 1 way will work so yeah that's my take. also I don't know how one would even rework grudge match

[General_Milky]

I kinda agree, IMAWAL having a clever, out of the box use that still isn't optimal doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. Patching it so that it adds 10 damage to the boss doesn't make a lot of sense to me, would it really make it too easy?

[The Avatar]

[Nurator]

Ok, I finished Family Matters, despite not liking it at first glance. It actually is a nice challenge with a cool feel. However, the sheer amount of stuff lying around is really disheartening at first. For further details, I will use spoilers because I talk about tactics