Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoilers)

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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby Darvin on Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:36 am

(because Rogue is surprisingly decent in the boss hive if you can survive past level 1)

Agreed; if I could get a rogue hopped up on CYDSTEPP clearing the boss hive would be a breeze, but the amount of luck in a rogue run just makes me turn my back on the prospects.

And...I still failed to kill all enemies. (The boss was Tormented One, and there was a level 9 Wraith, Level 7 Wraith, and Level 8 Goo Blob.

Yeah, not getting through that without flaming sword or lots of mana... and with Binlor as your god you've got very few options magic-wise.

If you could somehow pull it off, a rogue who worships the Earthmother would be ideal, but on boss hive that would require so much luck as to be utterly ridiculous.

In Gauntlet runs (above a certain level) you pick between two classes exclusively, and reset if you don't get the deity you need.

Monk of Dracul or Transmuter of Binlor. I haven't gone that high in Gauntlet (far enough that most classes are non-viable, though) but I've gone far enough to see how it plays.
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby metroid composite on Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:34 pm

Darvin wrote:
(because Rogue is surprisingly decent in the boss hive if you can survive past level 1)

Agreed; if I could get a rogue hopped up on CYDSTEPP clearing the boss hive would be a breeze, but the amount of luck in a rogue run just makes me turn my back on the prospects.


To be fair, it's a lot of retries, but it doesn't actually take that much time. If you're going to lose, usually you lose in the first 5-30 seconds, so 10 retries actually only takes about 3 minutes. And there's several things you can do to make yourself home-free from Vampires. (Get to level 2; worship Binlor for the on-worship +5 health; buy Pendant of Health or Bloody Sigil; get a +5 health bonus from pickups + Dwarf conversions).

If you could somehow pull it off, a rogue who worships the Earthmother would be ideal, but on boss hive that would require so much luck as to be utterly ridiculous.


Not really; get yourself vampire-safe through one of the normal means (getting to level 2 or buying an item). And then proceed with normal Earthmother strategies (you're probably not worshiping Earthmother before level 3 anyway). After you stoneform, you'll probably want to petrify a few of the resulting plants to get yourself a piety buffer for killing the rest of the goats and snakes on the map.

Unless you mean "reset until Earthmother is on the map" which...yeah, I wouldn't advise. (Pactmaker gives you more MP anyway, and often an extra level which means another full-heal, and more fireball damage; probably worse than Earthmother, but not by a lot).

Monk of Dracul or Transmuter of Binlor. I haven't gone that high in Gauntlet (far enough that most classes are non-viable, though) but I've gone far enough to see how it plays.


Yep! To be fair, there's two more viable classes provided you're willing to reset a completely ridiculous amount. If Orb of Zot is on the map (3% chance) then you can kill the boss at level 1 using Death Gaze (Gorgon or Changeling). But yeah, I quit when the win percentage got down to about 10%-20% so I have no plans on ever running Gorgon or Changeling. (Hypothetically they have more longevity than either Monk or Transmuter, though--those classes still rely on stats, so they probably get completely walled at around Gauntlet level 100 or something).

Of course, there's also Dracul Gorgon (the average boss is physical, and above a certain level Dracul Gorgon will handle low level enemies better than Monk). This is more theoretical, though; I've never actually loaded out with Dracul Gorgon.
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby Darvin on Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:30 am

(you're probably not worshiping Earthmother before level 3 anyway).

Eh? I'd say the opposite; go for Earthmother as early as possible so you get more Stoneform benefits. Earthmother is the gambler's Pactmaker; maximum benefit if worshipped starting at level 1, but equally likely to screw you over or offer you an astronomical benefit. Once I get any real progress into a dungeon, I'm not willing to make that gamble. I was speaking under an ideal situation, where you can get stoneform running at level 1, rack up a few levels to gain its benefit, then clean the rest of the dungeon with your buffed hero.

All things considered, the luck-factor in getting Earthmother and being able to petrify the right kinds of monsters without cutting yourself off (either movement-wise or experience-wise) and dodging vampires while blind at the 1st level is just too much. If all the stars aligned it would be the most amazing run ever conceived as a super-power rogue bullied his way through the Boss Hive, but it's just not happening.


Yep! To be fair, there's two more viable classes provided you're willing to reset a completely ridiculous amount. If Orb of Zot is on the map (3% chance) then you can kill the boss at level 1 using Death Gaze (Gorgon or Changeling).

And with the new version you'll be gold-farming for some time afterwards to pay for that Orb of Zot <_<


(Hypothetically they have more longevity than either Monk or Transmuter, though--those classes still rely on stats, so they probably get completely walled at around Gauntlet level 100 or something).

At a certain point, the Monk needs to kill some monsters for piety to get Bloodshield, and the Transmuter does actually need to fight the boss (even though he'll be buffed to a maximum level). Even the Changeling needs to survive a hit against a gorgon to morph (though I suppose any source of death protection should suffice regardless of how strong they get)
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby bkteer on Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:47 am

True but gauntlet runs really force you to treasure your tiles for regeneration. I really felt that vampire was enough to get past the first 8 levels of gauntlet albeit with a bit of gold farming and a bit of luck for both glyphs, items and gods. After level 8 though transmuter get's better since he doesn't suffer from the issue of getting walled in by high level monsters.

But how does monk work well with dracul in gauntlet? I still don't see how it's viable. Maybe due to me being too accustomed to transmuter.

But really changeling has got to be one of the most luck based class considering i won boss hive because i was able to polymorph that frank the zombie into medusa. That and another polymorph turned a lvl 3 wraith into a lvl 3 gorgon. It made all the difference between a win and a death.
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby TigerKnee on Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:35 am

bkteer wrote:But how does monk work well with dracul in gauntlet? I still don't see how it's viable. Maybe due to me being too accustomed to transmuter.


10% resist item + 20% resist item + 20% resist from bloodshield = complete immunity to that particular attack type. It's hilarious to punch Tower of Goo to death taking 0 damage.

At mid-levels, 90% or 80% resistance also works fine and you'll probably outslug the enemy.
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby Darvin on Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:36 pm

I really felt that vampire was enough to get past the first 8 levels of gauntlet

He is; until it gets really insane, he's actually pretty reliable. There does come a certain point at which he just can't do it, though, and at that point it's Transmuter or Monk... or in my case restoring an old save to try Gauntlet at more reasonable levels with other classes.
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby metroid composite on Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:54 pm

Darvin wrote:Even the Changeling needs to survive a hit against a gorgon to morph (though I suppose any source of death protection should suffice regardless of how strong they get)


Yeah, death protection is assumed--for a Gorgon you'll need it against the boss, and for a Changeling you'll need it to turn into a Gorgon. This is a pretty easy requirement to fill, though, compared to the other requirements. Orb of Zot is, of course, ridiculous. Gorgon can only get to 50% deathgaze if it finds and converts every glyph on the map AND worships Earthmother to get a seventh glyph from the IMAWALL spawn, AND finds an eighth glyph through a store. Changeling is much, much easier to pull off, but still has a significant risk of getting walled in.

bkteer wrote:True but gauntlet runs really force you to treasure your tiles for regeneration. I really felt that vampire was enough to get past the first 8 levels of gauntlet albeit with a bit of gold farming and a bit of luck for both glyphs, items and gods. After level 8 though transmuter get's better since he doesn't suffer from the issue of getting walled in by high level monsters.


To be fair, most classes can handle Gauntlet up through level 8. I was using like...Human Warlord up through Gauntlet level 16 or so, and Warlord is...not bad, but not winning any "broken" awards, and Human is a questionable race choice for Warlord (a class that wants Gnome's extra mana potions).

At a certain point, the Monk needs to kill some monsters for piety to get Bloodshield, and the Transmuter does actually need to fight the boss (even though he'll be buffed to a maximum level).


Yeah, but these are both pretty robust for a long time. Dwarf Transmuter with Hardiness can win physical fights through about Gauntlet level 47, and mage based Transmuters can keep going for...certainly a while longer (I stopped around 67 because I lacked the patience to keep going, not because of any flaw in Transmuter).

Monk, if you're going to find both Dracul and a bunch of defence item shops, yeah you'll need to build up your piety, but 80% defence...well at least at Gauntlet level 67 level 1 enemies only deal 13 damage (which 80% drops to 2) and Dracul's on-worship effect should boost you from level 1 to level 2, so you regen 4 tiles per square when level 1 enemies regen 1 tile per square; a very winnable regen confrontation. Pretty sure you should be able to get the 10 kills necessary for BloodShield at that level of Gauntlet.

So...yeah, strategies like "reset unitl Orb of Zot" are things you really shouldn't be considering below like...Gauntlet level 100 or so--Transmuter and Monk should be sufficiently consistent for a very long time.
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby dislekcia on Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:12 am

You guys realise that the Gauntlet was a totally artificial stress test of the different classes by us, right? ;)
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby 232 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:51 am

dislekcia wrote:You guys realise that the Gauntlet was a totally artificial stress test of the different classes by us, right? ;)


So... what did you think the absolute ceiling would be for Gauntlet levels?
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Re: Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoiler

Postby metroid composite on Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:58 pm

dislekcia wrote:You guys realise that the Gauntlet was a totally artificial stress test of the different classes by us, right? ;)

I could see that; I'd be curious to make 19 different folders and see how far each class gets (except that I don't have that kind of patience, with Gauntlet only going up by 5% each win and all that; that's probably 1000 rounds).
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