So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests?

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So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests?

Postby Hammerfan on Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:29 pm

So, yeah.

Discuss the matter here, what do you think the "2x Damage vs Undead" should be changed to?

I think making the first type of moster you kill "Unholy" (Causing you to deal 2x damage on other monsters of the same type.) could work, what do you guys think?
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby Darvin on Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:43 pm

That would lead to A LOT of scumming to find the boss early on random scenarios. It'd also create a significant difficulty discrepency on levels where the monster type of the boss isn't available for killing (I'm thinking Havensdale Bridge, Labyrinth, Shifting Passages, Namtar's Lair).

I'd certainly agree that if the developers want to move away from something specific to a certain kind of monster this ability needs to change, but I'm not sure what that change should be. The new ability should probably be a net buff, since the Priest is a mediocre class.
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby The Avatar on Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:48 pm

How about giving the priests monotheism, so they synergyze with GG and Drac, and changing the Paladin instead? Make holy work 100% against undead, and Good Golly becomes Good God which is just like monotheism.
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby subanark on Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:09 pm

I'm fine with priests being anti-undead, now that they are the only class that has this. The only part I don't like is they get punished for using one of their abilities.
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby FDru on Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:09 pm

subanark wrote:I'm fine with priests being anti-undead, now that they are the only class that has this. The only part I don't like is they get punished for using one of their abilities.


I don't understand. You taking about the piety loss with GG?

I agree that their undead damage doesn't need to be changed. Paladin was probably more due to being absurdly overpowered than anything.
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby The Avatar on Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:19 pm

How bout' the priest cannot lose piety and 100% undead damage...

If that's too powerful either half piety loss or 50% bonus damage
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby Darvin on Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:29 pm

Paladin was probably more due to being absurdly overpowered than anything.

To be fair, on any level except Hex Ruins the paladin is even more overpowered now, and he's never been particularly well-suited to most vicious levels (though he absolutely dominates most hard-difficulty levels).

How bout' the priest cannot lose piety and 100% undead damage...

Yeah that's much too powerful.

Not sure if half piety loss would be very helpful. You're either worshipping a piety farm and can afford the hit, or you're worshipping a stingy miser like GG or Dracul and you really can't afford to give up ANY piety anyways.
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby The Avatar on Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:51 pm

Okay, how about no piety loss from potions, since that's their main boost. Along with the 100% damage, of course.
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:26 pm

Repeating from the other topic.

Return old Holy Work to Paladin, give new Holy Work to Priest (replace 100% extra damage to attack)

Thematically, a Paladin is about having a strong code of conduct and morals. "I'm holding a vampiric blade and venom sword and worshipping GG which should piss him off a lot, but it's okay, because I am a Paladin" is odd as heck.

Priests work a lot better for an "ignore piety penalty" because a Priests are a lot more flexible in terms of story, like having a priest of darkness or something. Also they kind of need the buff and this one will push them up a bit.
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Re: So Paladins no longer rely on undead. What about Priests

Postby Halion on Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:15 pm

I like that the paladin (and crusader) interact with deities/altars and agree that it would be nice if priests did too.

There are other ways to give priests a buff that involves deities apart from moving Holy Work. Probably the easiest is if they gain piety more efficiently than other classes.

For example:
Ritualism - Increase all piety gains by X%. (It may be necessary to keep hidden track of fractions, since many gains are small).
Devotion - Gain X piety each time you level.
Sacrifice - Gain X piety from conversions. (X may be influenced by racial conversion cost, etc)

I think Holy Work makes the paladin a very interesting class, and would enjoy it if priests also keyed into the game's religious mechanics.
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