Racial Building Levels

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Racial Building Levels

Postby Alweth on Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:16 pm

I haven't heard anything about this, and haven't found anything about it in the forums, so please forgive me if I am missing out on some good discussion on this topic.

It seems to me that adding additional levels to the racial buildings could be fun and interesting, but the question is what sort of levels could you add that wouldn't just make the existing races better? Here are some ideas I've had:

- Level 2 could give that race a bonus to using the classes that they're worst for. What kind of bonus? One option would be to lower the number of conversion points they required with the classes they're worst with. For example, Halfling Rogues might require only 60 conversion points for a health potion. A potential problem with this idea is that you're buffing the thing that goes poorly with the class in the first place. Nevertheless, it would encourage interesting strategies with those classes.

- Level 3 could provide special race special classes, each one, in theory, being a modified version of the base race. So the humans might get vampires, elves -> half-dragon, use your imagination, etc.

- Alternatively, level 3 could provide another fantasy staple: female only classes. It could be one class per race, or even just one class for all the races: amazoness. Some ideas: humans: amazoness, elves: enchantress, dwarves: mecha she-dwarf (because there are no female dwarves), halflings: healer, gnomes: witch, orcs: dominatrix, goblins: broodmother.

- Another possible upgrade would be to give each race a bonus for when they complete (or maybe just exit) a dungeon. Some ideas: get to pick one or more items from the floor of the dungeon or shops to bring back as additional loot, bonus gold for carried items, bonus gold for carried glyphs, +10% gold, bonus gold for carried potions, bonus gold for level/current health/current mana/etc.

I've tried hard to think of ideas that wouldn't make the races more powerful, but if you are willing to take that route, there are many many possible upgrades.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby SnapDragon on Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:55 pm

As a simpler option, you could also just limit Level 1 races to Tier 1 classes, Level 2 races to Tier 2 classes, etc. (This doesn't preclude additional bonuses like you were brainstorming, of course.)
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby The Avatar on Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:05 pm

@SnapDragon: Well what if you have a tier 2 class but no tier 2 races. Could cause some major problems. Plus we all want to try out our shiny new level 2 classes without having to pay another 650 gold.
@Alweth: I think they're planning female portraits of normal classes for the release.

Here's an idea, give a bonus based on what the races are actually like.

Humans: Think they're so much smarter than everyone, that it's making them smart! +2 mp.
Elves: Being eco-friendly and just friendly in general has payed off. You can move over monsters. Also, your ultra senses allow you to sense shops and altars.
Dwarves: Extra gold piles. Digging comes in handy, you know.
Halflings: Start with a stepladder. Gain 30% damage boost, but 20% chance you miss the monster. Super helpful... if you don't trip...
Gnome: Starts with a gnome hat. 3 additional base damage, but monsters love the hat so much they must have it and gain first strike. We all love pointy hats!
Orcs: Special potion shops that sell special drinks. i.e. Coffee: 15 gold, grants first strike and Physical resist pierce for one strike. They told you caffeine made you hyper.
Goblins: One extra subdungeon. Who doesn't like mining?

Just an idea, I'm not quite sure.
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby TigerKnee on Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:51 am

SnapDragon wrote:As a simpler option, you could also just limit Level 1 races to Tier 1 classes, Level 2 races to Tier 2 classes, etc. (This doesn't preclude additional bonuses like you were brainstorming, of course.)


It will probably piss off a lot of people though. I consider most races actually underpowered if Humans are supposed to be the "baseline" comparison and having to spend more gold to actually use those races after having to randomly unlock them will probably turn people off from using them.
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby Alweth on Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:09 am

Racial building levels could unlock a specific extra boon with one god that only that race can use. Ideally, it would be a god that normally doesn't go that well with that race. It would be like that god is trying to create incentives for more of that race to worship him.

So, for example, Taurog might let gnomes convert mana potions into significant piety gain.

Another option would be to open up a racial god for each race, but that might be a lot of work.
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby gjaustin on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:32 am

I think the simplest solution would be to start them off with some free conversion points. It lets the races keep their identities and doesn't require additional balancing.

This, of course, assumes we even need additional levels for the race buildings.

The race bonus to their "worst class" is a good idea in theory, but they might as well just buff the Monk instead of giving him 7 different racial bonuses :)
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby Lujo on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:45 am

I'm thinking the best idea could be having extra "racial" locker space. Like Elven boots could go the the elven dwelling, dwarven gauntlets could go the the dwarven dwelling, and you get a quest to "shop" for them or get the item out of an easy or moderate dungeon. Saves the devs the problem of balancing the racest past lvl1 dwelling, saves locker space, and so on and so forth.

Balance wise, you could make it so that you cant use the "racial" locker if your're using the race. Say you have a "keg of mana" lockered in the gnome dwelling, you can only use it if you don't use a gnome. Just a thought, not sure how that'd work out (it would help with "cheesing out" the races).
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby The Avatar on Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:07 pm

I dunno, an elf bloodmage with a fire heart/battle Mage ring and a keg of mana would be incredibly powerful.
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby Alweth on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:39 pm

By the way, if they are planning on female portraits for for all normal classes for the release, they should make them unlocked by the level two version of that race's building. Females could get a little tweak (a bonus and a penalty). It could be generic for all females, it could be based on race, or it could be based on class. Alternatively, rather than a tweak, it could be that both males and females get a slight bonus when the building is upgraded to level 2 (and females get unlocked).
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Re: Racial Building Levels

Postby The Avatar on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:47 pm

Good idea, Alweth. [extra required characters...]
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