Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

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Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby TigerKnee on Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:56 pm

There's been an undercurrent belief that these items are terrible and junk up the item list so much that if it wasn't for the fact that if it wasn't for the fact that it's required to unlock the final potions (actual good ones), no one would ever bother with the Witch Hut quest.

This is kind of interesting, because the reason they were originally put in was because people was annoyed about stages filled with Corrosive and Weakening enemies and wanted something to counter them. I guess the logical problem behind these potions goes like this

1) If the stage has enemies that all have some form of status effects, then a puny removal of 3 layers is not going to help much.

2) If the stage has only a few enemies with said effects, then they can generally be safely ignored in favor of going for something else. Due to the new dungeon generation system, except for very specific labyrinth stages it's generally very hard to get "locked" in compared to Alpha.

3) For curing Mana burn/Poison, regular potions are almost always strictly superior.

There's also opportunity costs in that you can only bring in 5 potions at max, so you're going to bring in Strength/Schenfraude which are the strongest which doesn't leave room for much customization. Most players I believe will take either WhupAzz or Reflex as their 3rd slot.

Other than "complete overhaul of these potions", let's see if we can improve them. I suggest these (maybe not all of them at once)

1) If currently under Poison/Mana Burn, cure it immediately but if not currently affected, puts up a "shield" that prevents the next occurance. This is much more useful for Mana Burn then it is for Poison I suppose because it gives an opportunity to stop the mana drain from burn, which classes like Sorcerer and Paladin would really like.

2) Cures up to 5 layers of Weakening/Corrosion (or more). This will roughly remove like 2 monsters worth I believe.

3) Picking either of these two potions as preparations gives you 2 instead of 1.

Anyone else like this or want to suggest other methods?
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Re: Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby Halion on Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:23 pm

I think any of those buffs would be decent, but the impression I have is that the biggest problem with these potions is not as preparations but when randomly found on shops, since they're very situational.

If they were simply removed from the list of available shop items, they could remain on the preparation list as a specific option, but not risk wasting a shop on an item that may not be relevant. (Selecting the apothecary shop specialisation could put them back into the mix if desired).

Personally, I'm pretty tolerant of junk in shops, so I'm good regardless, but I can't say I've even briefly pondered buying one of these when I saw them in a dungeon.
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Re: Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby q 3 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:26 pm

Combining all four effects into a single potion would be my preferred solution; both to have an item that would actually be worth purchasing when it appears (currently it's quite possible to be in a situation where you'd like to have one of the potions but only the other appears for sale), and so that it doesn't take up as much shop space (especially relevant now that there are fewer shops initially). Honestly, even then I think it could use an additional boost.
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Re: Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby The Avatar on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:40 pm

While I prepare mana burn for paladin every time, I have never EVER bought them in shops. While I don't really care if they do show up in shops, they need to be made more relevant overall. How about you make the burn salve grants 20% mana back and fortitude 20% hp, in addition to changes one and two mentioned.
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Re: Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby Alweth on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:51 pm

If the problem is when they appear in shops, another option would be to let the player choose buying the tonic/salve or a health/mana potion instead.

Alternatively, they could always come bundled with another potion.
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Re: Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby The Avatar on Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:20 pm

That has been suggested before and I think it's a good idea. So definitely. Or, since right now it seems useless, make apothecary put 2 potions in potion shops...
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Re: Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby gjaustin on Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:45 pm

I have very, very rarely bought them from shops when I've been forced to take a few hits of weakening or corrosion. I'm still generally unhappy to see them.

Giving the mana burn potion back its shield effect would go a long way to making it usable again.

Alternatively, a very small max HP or max MP bonus from consuming them would give them an alternate use.
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Re: Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby The Avatar on Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:54 pm

Maybe... I guess. One mana and 5 max hp. (Each half of their respective pendants) Double's too strong, but this seems too weak. How about just adding a shield for them, so you are protected from the next poison or mana burn and the next 3 corrosion or 3 weakening. That way if you barely beat a weakening enemy in 3 shots, but won't because of weakening, you still could. Same thing with corroding monsters killing you. Also, you could heal in between wraith shots.
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Re: Fortitude Tonic/Burn Salve discussion

Postby Darvin on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:34 pm

The only reason I prepare burn salve currently is when I prepare patches (in which case you need to be ready to hit by mana burn at an inopportune time). Basically only use fortitude tonic to cure weakening.
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