Goblins...?

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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Gorgon on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:55 pm

Sorry, I forgot you're a new player! :D

Most magic items are acquired by the end of the game. The keg of mana is an elite item (unlocked by completing the final Bezar quest) and to get mage plate you need to complete The Labyrinth with all tier 1 classes.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby TigerKnee on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:06 pm

Bloodmages were significantly improved in Beta which is funny because nothing in the class powers description were changed, just a bunch of more user-friendly features.

Alpha Bloodmage would drink up his blood pools even if he had no use for it. By the time you reach the boss you would have only about 2 potions worth of blood pools.

Anyway, the Bloodmage isn't that hard to use even if you don't have mage plate or keg of mana or other super items. Save as many Bloodpools as you can before the boss. After drinking a mana potion, simply step on the blood pools to regain the health you lost.

That's really about it, the Bloodmage isn't exactly well-rounded.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby q 3 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:23 pm

Alternatively, Bloodmages make a pretty good melee class; get bonus experience by using your mana potions at lower levels, when their HP penalty isn't as severe, then save all of the bloodpools for melee against the boss (30 bloodpools are the equivalent of 11 health potions). Works pretty well with a Dwarf, incidentally, since bloodpool recovery is based on max HP.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Darvin on Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:45 pm

By my calculations, the orc decisively passes the elf at only 480 conversion points, without the Tri-sword

480 is 4 conversions for the orc, or +10 base damage. With a trisword that would be +14 base damage.
480 is just shy of 7 conversions for the elf, which with your trisword would result in +7 mana and +7 attack.
This so horrendously favours the elf to the point at which it virtually renders the Orc obsolete. Without a trisword the orc is barely ahead at all, and even with it the comparison is 7 mana / 7 attack versus 14 attack. Unless you have a huge attack bonus, the elf is way ahead here, to the point of rendering the orc obsolete.

If elves get better because of the Tri-sword, they don't have to stay at 70 conversion points.

Oh, so you're suggesting making the entire race less powerful to compensate for a single overpowered item? No, the whole reason the Trisword has a problem right now is because it favours a specific race.

Blood mages are hard to level up with, because of their lack of resources to fight high level monsters. This is the advantage of using an elf

Try burning heart as a preparation. Superb item for bloodmages that gets them through that rocky early game. Can't beat anything for bonus XP? Just keep blasting as you explore and you'll eventually topple your target.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby The Avatar on Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:16 pm

I meant the tri-sword isn't every conversion, but it has it's own conversion threshold of 100 not tied to your conversion.

Also, Bloodmages can be great if you regen fire. When you run out of mp turn on BLUDTUPOWA regen 3 tiles and fireball again. If your fireball does more than there 3 tiles you can whittle down their hp.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Alweth on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:49 am

Darvin wrote:
By my calculations, the orc decisively passes the elf at only 480 conversion points, without the Tri-sword

480 is 4 conversions for the orc, or +10 base damage. With a trisword that would be +14 base damage.
480 is just shy of 7 conversions for the elf, which with your trisword would result in +7 mana and +7 attack.
This so horrendously favours the elf to the point at which it virtually renders the Orc obsolete. Without a trisword the orc is barely ahead at all, and even with it the comparison is 7 mana / 7 attack versus 14 attack. Unless you have a huge attack bonus, the elf is way ahead here, to the point of rendering the orc obsolete.


You're completely overstating your case. The situation with the halfling is much worse and yet I seem to be the only person complaining about it.

Darvin wrote:
If elves get better because of the Tri-sword, they don't have to stay at 70 conversion points.

Oh, so you're suggesting making the entire race less powerful to compensate for a single overpowered item? No, the whole reason the Trisword has a problem right now is because it favours a specific race.

I am just saying there are options. Elves currently have the lowest conversion rate, so it's not unthinkable that their conversion rate be brought in line with other races once the game's balance shifts. The new Tri-sword might just be one part of that.
Were you expecting a coherent message? Alweth does not deal with such trifles. Ignore him or watch the thread get locked!
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby The Avatar on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:19 am

The elves are too high if anything! Once again, this is why I suggest that it trace its own point number. Or just not make it conversions. How about +1 base damage per open inverntory slot per level/2. It could be similar for Whurrgaburgl, or whatever it is...
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Zaratustra on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:39 am

Suggestion: +5 stacking experience, or +5% to resists per conversion.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Darvin on Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:12 am

You're completely overstating your case. The situation with the halfling is much worse and yet I seem to be the only person complaining about it.

Trisword is currently +3 per healing potion use, I was talking about the ramifications of changing it to +1 per conversion. Of course that's not going to be as bad as the current one, simply by virtue of having one-third the potential power. The underlying problem with both the current trisword and the one you've suggested is that both have wild divergence in performance based on your race, which is unacceptable.


I say let's get back to the original concept of the Tri-sword: "how are you even holding this!?"

This says to me that using the trisword requires great effort, possibly sacrifice, on the part of the user. Perhaps the Trisword could offer +2 attack per level, but disable mana regeneration? Whurgarbl could offer +5% attack bonus per level but disable health regeneration.



Suggestion: +5 stacking experience, or +5% to resists per conversion.

Back on topic; I like the "stacking experience" approach. Resists would be too strong; any class could easily hit 65% if you prepare a dragon shield.

If the goblins are going to stick with experience, there needs to be a use for XP after level 10. I've proposed a full heal for every 50 XP after level 10. You wouldn't see this come into play very often, but it would at least give the goblin something to shoot for if he hits level 10.
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Re: Goblins...?

Postby Alweth on Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:59 am

Darvin wrote:The underlying problem with both the current trisword and the one you've suggested is that both have wild divergence in performance based on your race, which is unacceptable.


Again, you're overstating the situation. Halfings get way more than twice (+100%) the benefit from the current Tri-sword as any other race. In contrast, Elves would get less than +15% more out of the new Tri-sword than Halflings, Gnomes, and Dwarves, and in the worst case, Elves would get +71% more from the new Tri-sword than Orcs. Many items are going to favor some races over others and this is a necessary and desirable feature, as long as it's kept within reason.

It's not that I think you're necessarily wrong, but your exaggerations and outlandish statements are muddying the water and obscuring what could otherwise be fruitful discussion or ideas.

The current Tri-sword has a "wild divergence"; the suggested Tri-sword has a significant divergence--not a "wild" one. The current Tri-sword clearly, by your criteria, is "unacceptable", "too powerful", "absolutely cannot be done", "horrendously favors" halflings, and "renders the orc obsolete" yet is in the game right now. I suggest a much much more mild version of the same thing and you fling all these outrageous labels at it without even giving it a try, despite the fact that it would be a huge improvement over the current system.
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