Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

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Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby gjaustin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:21 pm

Since everyone is busy arguing in other threads, I thought I'd make a thread where people just post their suggestions for balance. There's a few rules I hope everyone can follow:

1) Be polite
2) Keep the suggestions small and concise, to increase the chance that the devs will implement them
3) No arguing with other people's suggestions
4) Exception to 3 - You may ask people why they suggest something and suggest minor tweaks to their suggestions
5) Seriously, be nice


Class Balance
----------------
Fighter - Make his Death Protection renew at level up
Thief - Make his 33% extra items not provide extra glyphs or potions
Monk - Lower his max resist cap back to 65%
Wizard - Lower his damage penalty slightly (-15%)
Sorcerer - Change his healing to scale with either his level or max health
Crusader - Make Fireballs and PISORF not reset his damage bonus
Half-Dragon - Make Poison apply after Knockback
Gorgon - Give her 25% magic resist as well
Vampire - Make the health portion of his conversion bonus stacking


God Balance
--------------
Glowing Guardian - Increase Humility to 25 piety
Tikki Tooki - Reduce the piety gained from Tribute to 5
Earthmother - Change Vine Form to 5+2 (instead of 5+3)
Binlor - Fix his damage boon so that it works without First Strike
Mystera - Remove the drawbacks from her boons (except Mana Leak) and increase the piety cost by 25-50%
Pactmaker - Reduce Consensus to 25 piety. Increase the cost of Body Pact to 5 piety.


Item Balance
---------------
Martyr Wraps - Remove the corrosion drawback
Witchalok Pendant - Reduce the cost to 5 gold
Mage Plate - Remove the attack penalty
Wharburglgl - Double the bonus to 10% per potion
Blue Bead - Increase to 2 mana restored
Burn Salve/Fortitude Potion - Change them to remove ALL levels of Corrosion/Weakening
Sensation Stone - Prevent this item from being lockered
Whupaz - Reduce to 15%. Decrease the health of bosses by 10%.


Glyph Balance
----------------
BYSEPS - Change it to add 1 base damage per level and +20% damage
GETINDARE - Change it to also ignore 20% resists
WONAFYT - Add a Wicked Guitar effect (increase the level of the summoned monster by 1)


Dungeon Balance
--------------------
Slime Pits - Remove Mana Burn from the green Meatmen
Halls of Steel (Vicious) - Reduce Indomitable to 30 levels of Death Protection
Shifting Passages - Add a unique item (like in Havendale Bridge or Halls of Steel) that destroys all walls within 2 squares


Boss Balance
--------------
Bandit/Gorgon - Increase health by 20%
Bleaty - Lower his damage in a Vicious dungeon to no more than 200. Alternatively, remove his magic resistance.


Enemy Balance
-----------------
Animated Armor - Half their damage
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Darvin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:55 pm

Good list overall, though removing all downsides from mage plate may be over the top, and I don't think you solve the fundamental problems with many of the deities.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby gjaustin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:01 pm

Yep, that's me following my own rule #2 :)
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Darvin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:09 pm

Mystera and Earthmother need serious work, to the point at which I wouldn't even bother making "simple" suggestions because they need such an overhaul. They both have a couple half-decent boons, but not worth actually converting into their religion when other options are available. Only time I use them is when I need to convert out of my current religion and need someone who isn't going to penalize spellcasting or drinking potions.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby The Avatar on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:55 am

As for your shifting passages suggestion, you could make them give you the things goblin miners (In gaan-telet) drop!

Halls of steel vicious change makes sense, as the hard only has 10 protections now and Blah Blah is there too.

Blue Bead could be a bit much. Using Yendor and a goblin you can reach very high levels very fast, and immediately fight the boss. Giving a massive mana pool is a bit too powerful. Perhaps making it the magic bead which restores 1 mana and 1 health per level?

I totally agree with Mystera change except refreshment (Fill mana) would need to have a serious cost increase. And just removing the penalties takes place of an overhaul IMO.

As for the thief I believe making the potions 40% of what they actually are and 20% of what they aren't. After all, thier potions are their most important trait.

As for the vampire, there is one minor problem. 500 conversion points (All glyphs no items) you get 12 conversions. That would be 78 by itself, and with a conversion stone or items that could be an absolutely massive amount of hp.

Here's some additions:

God Balance
--------------------
Dracul: Lower lifesteal resist penalty to 5%
Jehora Jeheyu: Change boost health and boost mana to one offs, and perhaps slightly buff them (d mana and 20 hp?) and make last chance repeatable
Taurog: Add 20% damage to the sword and up the cost to 30-45 piety

Item Balance
--------------------
Gloves of Midas: Lower conversion slightly (50?)
Troll Heart: Add 2% resist to the level up effect and lower conversion slightly (65?)
Mage Plate: change to 1 less base damage per level (Maybe that's worse. I haven't calculated it.)

Race Balance
--------------------
Orcs: Cap the stacking at +5 base

Prep Balance
--------------------
Thieves Den: Change lucky packets to -3-5 cost to items (Shady Deals)
Church: Change indulgence to a free conversion (Polytheism), and Heretic to +1 altar (Mobile Temple)
Bazaar: Change Apothecary to no potions (Parched Shopkeeps)
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Crawly McCrawlsa on Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:52 am

Class Balance
---------------
Vampire: Add first strike

Race Balance
---------------
Slightly buff goblins? Haven't tested the newest incarnation much, but it really isn't much different unless using sense stone. Lower cost to level by 10%? 5 at 1, 9 at 2, 14 at 3, 18 at 4, etc. For a max of -5 at level 10. Should make mid-fight levels slightly easier, and make the whole "heal on level up after lvl 10" more usable.

Item Balance
----------------
Wurrrgarbl: Lower shop cost by 5 gold to match tri-sword
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby gjaustin on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:39 am

Avatar - I really like your Troll Heart, Mage Plate, and Prep suggestions.

Mage Plate especially. It would consistently be a <20% decrease, rather than going as high as 50%
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby q 3 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:58 am

Orc: Conversion cost starts at 100 and increases by 15 with each conversion.

Dwarf: +1 stacking HP per ~75 conversion.

Gnome: Increase conversion cost to 85.

~

Monk: Reduce starting resists to 40%, keep 75% cap or possibly reduce to 70%.

Berserker: Reduce magic resist to 25%, reduce spell penalty to +1 MP cost.

Rogue: Increase damage bonus to 70%, but it is only in effect when HP is > 50%. (Or 30% fixed, 30% conditional. Or +1 base damage per level, +30% conditional.)

Priest: Replace +100% damage against undead with +30% bonus that applies against any monster that is undead, poisons, or weakens.

Transmuter: Starts with Rock Heart and ENDISWAL in inventory. ENDISWAL costs 3 MP (net 1 MP with Rock Heart). Stone Skin effect adds both 10% phys resist and 5% mag resist. (Alternatively: every wall destroyed turns into a gold pile. No idea whether that would be balanced or not, but it would at least be fun.) Normal MP and MP regen.

~

BICEPS and GETINDARE: Combine into one glyph. 3 MP for First Strike and +40% damage.

CYDSTEPP, HALPMEH, BLUDTOPOWA, APHEELSIK: These glyphs never spawn on the map. Instead, you can eventually unlock a Glyph Shop with all four glyphs for sale; the shop spawns on every map once unlocked, and disappears after one glyph is purchased. (You can use a modified deity menu for the shop selection so as to minimize interface dev time.)

PISORF: Add a PISORF prep to the Mage Tower, which guarantees PISORF in your starting inventory. One glyph is randomly deleted from the map.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby The Avatar on Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:34 am

I like the glyph shop idea. Not only does it not allow cheap two glyph combos for 1st and 2nd tiers, and let's 3rd tiers do them, it also reduces scumming.
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Re: Unofficial Balance Suggestions Thread

Postby Lujo on Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:24 am

Kingdom
------------------

Potions (!!!) - Make potion specific shops that prevent potions from pushing regular items out of the pool. Otherwise make potions only apper in potion slots in regular shops. Buff the fortitude potion and burn salve in any manner, and lower the max amount of potion slots to 4.

Monsters (!!!) - Add piety drain, conversion point drain and gold drain enemies to the game to prevent people from abusing mechanics that have been buffed/added since alpha days and have no counter ATM. If these preove good and challenging you could also ad monsters with revards in those areas, or add such rewards to already "over the curve monsters" such as AA's and Zombies.

Racial Buildings - Alow locker slots for really specific stuff that you don't want to see in shops, and make the quest's to unlock said stuff make them preps available from the racial building. Exclusive with guild preps, ofc.

QUESTS
-----------------------

Witch - Remove the Comicated I and II rewards from the game completely, and make the other ones significantly easier.

Razor Blade Smile - Add some more fodder to vicious Halls of Steel, and significantly lower the amount of death protections on the vicious Indomitable.

GLYPHS
-----------------------

HALPMEH - make it not remove poison, and make increse it's cost to 4 mana. Alternatively/additionaly make it remove Poisonous and Lifesteal BOONS, to prevent monotheism abuse.

BYCEPSS - make it remove poison, add +1 DMG per lvl, and increse it's cost to 3 mana. It would still allow for GG piety farm, but not regen fighting at the same time, and you'd have to scum for it.

WONNAFYT - Make it impossible to hit slowed enemies, for a start, and lower it's cost.

GETINDARE - Have it stack dodge untill you dodge. You can still only cast it once before you attack, but the stacked dodge would remain untill you Dodge.

Races
-----------------

Orc - cap him off at some point, but reduce the overall monster health by a little bit possibly.

Halfling/Gnome - Increse conversion cost.

Classes
---------------

Monk - lower his starting resists and cap by any amount, and fine tune it along several updates.

Paladin - If HALMEH is nefed to cost 4 mana and not cure poison he would be significantly weakened. If you make HALPMEH remove TT poison BOON, as well as Drac's Lifesteal Boon, you would also deal with monotheism abuse.

Thief - Lower the effect of potions to 33% restore.

Items
------------

Conversion stone - make it unlockerable.

Reflex potions - Fix the tooltip to make it more understandable that you can in fact get 2 hits in. It was the biggest detractor from people "discovering" them earlier.

Agnostic's collar - Add some sort of limitation to it's use, keeping in mind that doing so would drasticaly increse dificulty of many vicious dungeons, and make a few impossible to comlete with a lot of classes.

Quest Reward / Elite items - lower the costs of item's that need unlocking, as cost/conversion ratio is more important than the effects of most items anyway.

Gods
-------------

Mysteria, EM, Jehora - if you buff burn salve, and fortitude enough, have these goods give out the potions as boons in some form or fashion. Adjust Jeohras HP and MP boons to one time, and add "converts a HP or MP potion into a STR or Schaden potion", respectively (I'd give the STR one to the mana boon, and the Schaden to the HP boon, think about it ;).

GG - Increse the cost of Absolution, and definitely remove the poison/HALPMEH sinergy. You can move the cleansing effect to EM to make her more worthwhile, as GG has an abundance of quality boons. You can also move the healing boon to EM and adjust it in some way.

TT - Have tribute be payed 5 gold at a time, and boons give back 5 gold. Lower the potion boon to 25, but have it increse in cost, or redistribute the potions into two cheaper stacking boons again, but move Tiki's Edge to Binlor to give him a worthwhile ability.

Binlor - have his Piety giving boon give something other than piety - he's a piety farm. Possibly move the Tiki's Edge boon to him and make him a better alternative to Taurog for physical fighters. You can also add IMAWAL piety benefits to him.

Drac - Find some other penalty for Lifesteal - the 10% resist penalty is nowhere near worth the effect.
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