Current assorted thoughts

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Current assorted thoughts

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:20 pm

The advantage of a WONNAFYT that couldn't lacth onto allready slowed enemies would be that you don't have to actually find stuff to add to the popcorn bowl, saving tons of exploration, and would be siginficantly more powerfull than it is and distinctly different from WHEYTWUT.

And WHEYTWUT as an early glyph is great. I use it often, and I'm loving it.
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2841
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Current assorted thoughts

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:37 pm

I finally did the math on WONAFYT. I did one run where someone uses WONAFYT to exclusively fight equal or lower level monsters (which appears to be its intended use), but also somehow contrives to get the +1 xp bonus on every fight (very hard to set up). The other run used the more traditional strategy of fighting monsters one level higher than yourself (I had to do two 2+ fights due to a lack of high level monsters), and then summarily executing the remaining popcorn monsters at the end. Both characters cleared the dungeon of all monsters except for the boss, and then I compared their xp totals.

I decided to actually do the experiment instead of calculating to eliminate the potential for error. I simulated a perfect WONAFYT run by using a Fighter. The traditionalist was a Monk armed with an ENDISWAL preparation (to avoid getting blocked off by inappropriately leveled monsters that might have thrown things off). I then compared their xp totals.

The traditionalist won by exactly 50 xp. Fighting equal leveled monsters is just a losing proposition in the long term.

I should point out that the deck was heavily stacked against the traditionalist. It's almost impossible to actually get the bonus xp off of every monster in the dungeon using WONAFYT. Morever, fighting monsters only one level higher than yourself is an extremely conservative approach. As your character gathers equipment, powerups, and boons, he can begin to regularly handle 2-3 level disparities, and timely use of strong match ups can kick this up to 3-4. Judicious potion use can sometimes result in 5+ victories. The 50 point victory should be considered the minimum possible advantage over a WONAFYT strategy.

Of course, none of us are actually going to use WONAFYT that way. We use it to prep popcorn monsters for the endgame (it should really be called DONTWONAFYT). But I don't think that was its intended use.

I'd just as soon have the glyph removed entirely. Right now, it's not useless, but IMAWAL and WEYTWUT are hands down better at the same job, and it's primary effect is pretty much worthless.

EDIT: Further thoughts. The comparison shows just how important it is to fight the highest level monster possible. If you remove the +1 bonus from the WONAFYTer, the he loses by a whopping 104 points. If the traditionalist does more than the bare minimum effort, he can widen that gap by another 20-50 points. Furthermore, the traditionalist typically spends less resources in spite of the harder battles because he levels up every 1-2 fights, whereas the other guy needs to regenerate several times per level to keep functioning. Bonus xp is super important and is what separates beginners from intermediates.
Sidestepper
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 am

Re: Current assorted thoughts

Postby Lujo on Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:12 pm

Well, fighter could get use of it if it's latching onto monsters was fixed if the glyph is found at the beggining, especially with TT. I'd would take about 50 mana for 10 extra xp, so the price should be significantly lower (around 3 mana, say), but the main advantage would be that you don't have to waste exploration FINDING the monsters to teleport to the bowl.

10 lvl 1 monsters prepped with such a wonnafyt would cost 30 mana, and with Tiki's edge on a fighter would bring in 40 xp. And you get 100 conversion points from it. without tiki's edge thats 30 XP just for base popcorn. It would also help clear your way of popcorn to prevent GG mishaps and all that.

Additionaly, I'd love to have fighter start with the glyph, or always spawn it the way wizard always spawns an extra fireball. It would give him 100 "free" conversion points, and make his glyph pool better if the ability would prevent an aditional WONNAFYT spawning.
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2841
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Current assorted thoughts

Postby The Avatar on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:24 pm

That would be good, but only 3rd tier guys start with glyphs.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4453
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm
Location: Demonic Library

Re: Current assorted thoughts

Postby Lujo on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:29 am

The Avatar wrote:That would be good, but only 3rd tier guys start with glyphs.


I'm not saying he should start with it :) But he could have it spawned as the wizard sawns the extra fireball, just uncannily close to the starting location ;)

And they could change the wizard to spawn anything instead of that fireball while they're at it :)
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2841
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Current assorted thoughts

Postby The Avatar on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:10 pm

Yeah, an extra fireball glyph is pretty useless.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
User avatar
The Avatar
 
Posts: 4453
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:52 pm
Location: Demonic Library

Previous

Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron