Here be goats!

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Here be goats!

Postby Lujo on Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:52 pm

Look, what you say IS reasonable, but it adds a manual dexterity hazard to a trun based deterministic game.

You've never been deep in Gaan'Telet and died because of a popup coming up and when you click back on your browser the damn char decides you've clicked on the wrong tile, and you unable to even see where your pointer is. I have.

The game's difficult and taxing as is. If I wanted manual dexterity hazards, i'd be playing darts. Or MOBA'S - one of the big selleing points of this game was that I get all I get from MOBAS without having to deal with teamplay issues and manual dexterity issues.

It stoped being a "load up and go, don't worry about dieing" casual roguelike game a while ago. I know the devs and some players are fans of roguelikes, I'm not, I'm a fan of this game - a deterministic turn based puzzle game that takes a reductionist aproach to RPG elements (much like a MOBA), only rewarding strategy instead of reflexes and tactics. If I sit down for a game (or a couple of hours, as it were), any outside elements intefering with what I do in game in ways that can waste rather large amounts of time and effort have less then 0% approval from me.

And ESPECIALY if they are the single largest time waster in the game with no merits whatsoever. I'm not joking about the ratio of my causes of death. The crashes and misclicks cost me about at least a day of my life up to now.
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby gjaustin on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:09 pm

q 3 wrote:Human is always better for regen fighting. (Except in circumstances where Orc is better, natch.) And anyway, I think you'd do better with a Sorcerer than a Paladin. Monotheism hurts more than it helps: Mystera is still the second best piety farm, and now she doesn't have any re-usable boons (other than Weakening which is still pretty terrible), meaning you'll usually want to convert out; she also hardly has any piety loss (just killing magic users, which are popcorn in most dungeons), which means you get very little benefit from punishment immunity. Whereas all three Sorcerer abilities have great synergy with Mana Leak + HALPMEH. Rogue would also make this a pretty nasty combo, if you get his HP/resists high enough to take a hit. Interestingly, I don't think Monk is optimal here - with 1 MP HALPMEH you really, really want to use BLUDTOPOWA, and that disables the Monk's biggest advantage. And as I already noted, Wizards can pull this off without even bothering with the Crystal Ball; great for Purist runs, or take the Dragon Shield if you think easy mode is still too easy.


The main advantages of the Paladin are that you're guaranteed to start with HALPMEH and the 25% resists. Since he doesn't have to search/scum for the glyph, that lets you start fighting higher level monsters immediately. The resists are also important, since it basically lets you fight a monster 1 level higher than otherwise - if it doesn't one shot you, you can probably kill it.

Monotheism also makes things more consistent, since you don't have to worry about killing monsters with magic attack. I'm not sure this strategy would work on Dragon Isles without it.
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby gjaustin on Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:50 pm

I finally failed a dungeon as a Mystera Paladin - due to a play error.

I didn't realize that Timothy still had Poison/Mana Burn in addition to his new 100% Resist Down (yes, 100). I managed to Fireball down Bleaty, but since they were both in the first wave, couldn't quite manage it on him too. Then I couldn't beat the next wave since I had no way to clear my Mana Burn. Oops!
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby dislekcia on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:26 pm

Stepwise Regression wrote:I like most of the recent changes so far, however, a new problem seems to have appeared with the latest update. As others have pointed out, text looks low-res and messy for certain users.

I've tried Opera, Chrome and Firefox, and unless I use 100% zoom in the browser, which results in a tiny window at higher resolutions, most in-game text gets hard to read. Text is somewhat easier to read in fullscreen mode, but still looks worse than before.
Both screenshots below were taken at the same level of zoom and at the same resolution. I couldn't find an old screenshot on my HDD with more text, but this illustrates the issue as well (left - old version; right - new version).
Image

If you're not experiencing any problems with fonts and browser zooming, I'd like to ask which browser you are using.


Is there any particular reason that you're not using the game's fullscreen option (from the menu)? I ask because browser scaling is always going to result in resampling issues.
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby gjaustin on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:29 pm

I use Fullscreen (when I can) and my text is blurrier too.
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby FDru on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:34 pm

dislekcia wrote:Is there any particular reason that you're not using the game's fullscreen option (from the menu)? I ask because browser scaling is always going to result in resampling issues.


I can tell you why I don't, but you've heard it before... the clickable area of everything (meaning everything, from monsters to kingdom menu buttons) is moved downward half a tile in full-screen resulting in a lot of confusion and misclicks. However, I would love to use fullscreen if that issue weren't present.
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby q 3 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:26 pm

Weird, random issue: you can petrify Yin/Yang with IMAWAL. Doing so traps you in their subdungeon with no apparent way to escape, even if you subsequently ENDISWAL them.

xspeedballx wrote:How often do we misclick because we are bad at using our mouse? For me? Never.


I'm playing on a laptop with a touchpad. Many, many, many games have been lost due to what I attribute to hardware/software interface issues. Granted, that's more often "trying to drag a potion to the conversion button but I lose control of it because dragging is very difficult on a touchpad, and end up quaffing it which leads Glowing Guardian to trash my inventory, which is 99% equivalent to a game over" but the lack of precision on a touchpad does lead to misclicks on occasion. I just don't see the point of allowing it. There are already cases where the game prevents you from killing yourself - if you try to desecrate JJ, you'll get a warning with big red letters saying "this may kill you" and until the most recent update you weren't even allowed to quaff a mana potion as a Bloodmage if the HP cost would kill you. If it's okay to warn/prevent the player in those cases, why is it considered "fun" not to do so in any other case?

dislekcia wrote:Is there any particular reason that you're not using the game's fullscreen option (from the menu)? I ask because browser scaling is always going to result in resampling issues.


I don't use fullscreen because it's terribly ugly - and always has been. Playing in the browser window I consistently get a fixed 800 x 600 space, which seems to be the game's "native" resolution, and has always looked nice (until the latest update). Playing fullscreen results in stretching and distortion that's certainly no better since the update, and possibly worse (although since I rarely use fullscreen I can't say for sure).

I should note that my main concern at the moment, in non-fullscreen mode, is that the text has gotten I would guess about 2-3 pixels smaller. It was already pretty small, now it's in the "need to squint" zone.

gjaustin wrote:The main advantages of the Paladin are that you're guaranteed to start with HALPMEH and the 25% resists. Since he doesn't have to search/scum for the glyph, that lets you start fighting higher level monsters immediately. The resists are also important, since it basically lets you fight a monster 1 level higher than otherwise - if it doesn't one shot you, you can probably kill it.


True, but on a limited unlock profile you shouldn't have to do much scumming anyway. Although I also just realized that Mana Leak will weaken the Sorcerer's mana shield, not that that's a huge consideration.

Also, the RBS is a complete waste of space now that BICEPS will do the same thing after 5 hits (and continue to do so until the monster is at 0%, and it also targets magic resistance, and it doesn't incur the slow strike penalty, and as I've already noted but feel compelled to repeat a Wizard can cast it for free, even while mana burned). Either tone down BICEPS (no more than 3% reduction, and only physical) and/or buff the RBS (35-40% piercing sounds fair to me given its penalty).
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby thegabbert on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:38 pm

dislekcia wrote:Is there any particular reason that you're not using the game's fullscreen option (from the menu)? I ask because browser scaling is always going to result in resampling issues.

When not in full-screen mode, the new font looks slightly smaller, tighter, and clearer on my computer. As soon as I go into full-screen mode (using the game's full-screen option from the menu), it scales badly and gets fuzzy, pixelated, and hard to read. I would take a screenshot of that, but Firefox won't let me; it takes a screenshot of my desktop instead.
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby Fran on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:40 pm

Thanks to crystal ball, the witchs task pt6 got a bit easier. I just managed to complete it without finding halpmeh, and without spending all ressources i had at my disposal:
Using GG, an orb of zot, crystal ball and burndarayz i was able to regen fight the goblins down. Orb of zot is a tremendous help there, I'm surprised nobody mentioned that before.
Having unlocked witch lvl 3 now, I'm shocked how much better the potions are compared to lvl2. Now i understand why there should be something done about this. Also, my dragonisle run was way harder without whupaz than it should have been in retroperspective. :/
I really think you should weaken the bosses and remove whupaz as its a no-brainer.

I also like the new income system, now that it's fully explained, incorporates classes and badges and bet on the boss works, great job :)
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Re: Here be goats!

Postby q 3 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:19 pm

A request: if you've already cleared the tutorial dungeons on one profile, you should at least have the option to skip them on a new profile. It's just tedious and completely unnecessary. (Start the game with Fighter, Hobbler's Hold, Den of Danger, and Venture Cave unlocked.)

I got a Taxidermist message and a Bazaar quest after killing the boss of an easy dungeon and then suiciding.

The new Bandits are pretty squishy targets for Rogues, fireball users, and the like. Oddly, the bosses in the Rogue easy dungeon are unchanged.

I don't think the Troll Heart is worth purchasing anymore. It's too expensive and no longer worth the conversion points unless you're at the point of nearly unlimited funds; and the effect, even doubled, just isn't worth 16 gold. Knock it down to 8-10 gold, maybe knock the conversion value down a bit too, and I think it'll be just about right.

Bloody Sigil feels just about perfect.

Gloves of Midas could still stand to have their conversion value knocked down to ~35.
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