On RNG Swing

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On RNG Swing

Postby Summerwine on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:04 am

Relatively new poster. Long time DD fan. Love the game so far, but I do have one critique.

RNG swing is a bit too much of a factor. Especially since certain items like zombie dog and even certain deities a useless to the point players are better off not unlocking them if they want a certain strategy. I appreciate you wanting to make every item potentially useful in run. but currently this is a bad situation. Part of the issue here is the locker. Having enough spaces to put everything you want in there renders the spaces much less meaningful, but at the same time with all the different classes and the number of items that are pretty much required to play certain classes in certain ways, such as Trisword, dragon shield, stone heart, flame heart, Crystal Ball, Poison/Mana burn preventers, the sensory stone, the midas gloves for tinkers, wharghlblarghl..., it currently feels like there are WAY too few spaces, making it a bit too restrictive.

Making all the items equally useful would fix this, but is easier said than done. A new prep building that will actually remove certain items and deities would be great. Maybe one slot to forbid a specific god, and two slots to forbid specific items from appearing in shops like spoons, zombie dog, and certain seconday potions could be an elegant solution. That way, say, priests could forbid Dracul or wizards forbid Traurog, or people who don't like Pactmaker forbidding pactmaker. Being able to specify a specific deity would be way too strong, but this would keep certain completely useless deities from appearing.
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Re: On RNG Swing

Postby q 3 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:23 am

I have an idea: have a bigger locker, but items that are currently in your locker never appear in shops (unless and until the item is removed from the locker). That makes for an interesting choice: you want to have cool items in your locker so you can prep them, but you also want to leave cool items out of your locker so you can buy them; conversely, you want to have crummy items in your locker so you can block them, but you want to leave crummy items out of your locker because you'll never prep them. (Unless you're playing purist, in which case you'll only put crummy items in your locker, but that really only affects me. ;) )
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Re: On RNG Swing

Postby Darvin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:27 am

RNG swing is a bit too much of a factor. Especially since certain items like zombie dog and even certain deities a useless to the point players are better off not unlocking them if they want a certain strategy.

I concur; while I love the spontaneity of DD, we currently have the preparation system and the RNG pulling in two separate directions. The prep system encourages players to enter a dungeon with a plan in mind and to optimize their load-out with respect to this, while the RNG forbids such an approach and forces players to be very flexible with regards to sub-optimal in-dungeon assets.

This has lead to "selective unlocking" strategies that currently are the hot thing. I'm personally running a Mystera/Jehora deity combo, and am looking to complete my trio with Pactmaker, though I'm being a little sloppy with item unlocks and am more or less allowing my shops to become cluttered. I don't know what the answer is, but I hope Desktop Dungeons can find the happy medium between these two factors.


it currently feels like there are WAY too few spaces, making it a bit too restrictive.

As it stands currently, Trisword, Burning Heart, Stone Heart, Crystal Ball, Dragonshield, Sensation Stone and Avatar's Symbol are pretty well mandatory for specific high-end strategies... oh wait, that's 7 out of 6 of your locker slots, hmmm....

I've long held that we need more slots, because locker scumming just isn't fun. Unfortunately, the only real solution as it stands right now is to make and maintain two different accounts with different locker load-outs.


I have an idea: have a bigger locker, but items that are currently in your locker never appear in shops (unless and until the item is removed from the locker). That makes for an interesting choice: you want to have cool items in your locker so you can prep them, but you also want to leave cool items out of your locker so you can buy them;

I strongly disagree with this. This means your favourite items will never appear. This also greatly discourages lockering two complementary items, such as both the Fire Heart and the Crystal Ball.
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Re: On RNG Swing

Postby gjaustin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:09 pm

I'd rather see locker items be MORE likely to appear in shops. It would certainly reduce scumming for the Fire Heart/Crystal Ball and Dragon Shield/Trisword combos.
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Re: On RNG Swing

Postby Darvin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:26 pm

The fact that these specific item combos are so powerful is yet another issue with the RNG; we have very few combos which complement each other as well as those two (Avatar's Symbol and Trisword is another superb one).
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Re: On RNG Swing

Postby Fran on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:00 pm

Why not make a preperation at the thief den:

"Shady Deals"
Replaces a shop for a random lockered item for double the price.
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Re: On RNG Swing

Postby The Avatar on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:16 pm

Sounds great! That way I can burning heart, and then crystal ball! Or Avatar Symbol and Tri-sword!

The only thing is then you could buy a Dragon Shield, but then again it is for 46 gold so it'd be like an elite.
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Re: On RNG Swing

Postby Darvin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:20 pm

Dragonshield, Avatar's Symbol, and Namtar's Ward are the three items that can never be bought in stores. I don't see any particular way to game them. They're strong preps, but they appeal to very different kinds of characters (and Namtar's Ward is still not worth lockering at all, IMO)
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Re: On RNG Swing

Postby The Avatar on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:43 pm

No insanely broken combos, but Dragon Shield and Crystal ball would be a very nice combination
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