Playthrough notes

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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:25 am

@paplaukes: The thing that really toned down Dragon Isles might be applicable here - getting rid of Animated Armors. Otherwise good job :)

On a simmilar note:

Burning Slime Pits note - A wizard just did it without B2P a quite easily. Prepped Mysterea and Crystall Ball, dipped into TT for popcorn cleaning Tiki's Edge, a bit of poison (turnedout useless, needs dedication) and gold, killed the blob first, went back to mysterea, took more mana and flames (had refreshment from before) and whoopaz + burnspiked the SMM to death. It's deffintely manageable if you're not doing trickshots, and a "get fammiliar with it quest" would work out dandy.

Namtar's Lair Win no. II - Gnome Bloodmage - I won, but I'm still really sour about it. Monk attempt crashed and burned (might've been my fault), and Bloodmage won, allthough I did get Zombie gold and the money subdungeon and a trisword. Preps were standard CB caster setup, and I'm very, very annoyed at this dungeon. I don't mind running Binlor in the Labyrinth, as it is doable without him, here it just feels tedious and I feel forced to do it. Not to mention that Bloodmages are stupid good with the built in sanguine (went through Zombie gold while worshiping Drac. The undead! They do nothing!), and guaranteed B2P which further reduces the supposed challenge of having a really cramped map. So yeah, if you take über nerf bait in, find the "win anywhere" subdungeon, and completely eliminate the supposed challenge with preps, it's easily done - but then I'm just playing Grimms Grotto with the stats turned up to eleven... I'd have more fun endlesly trying to beat VICIOUS Gaan'Telet with a Transmuter in a crashstorm...

The actual strat - Err, use Binlor to get PISSORF and open up the map as much as I can while still leaving some blackspace (used subdungeons for B2P later, which is why Zombie gold here changes things immensly). Swapped from Binlor to Drac. Leveled up with CP B2P manapotion spikes on softer targets (and with a rather explored map the blinkers weren't a problem, which is why Binlor prep is mandatory for this map). PISSORFF spam on the first form, BURNDAYRAZ on the second form, cleared all I could, swapped back to Binlor (3rd guy was GG), went down and being a gnome with BURNDAYRAZ and PISSORFF (and all my health potions) it was rather easy. Abused midfight DINGS! during the first 2 forms.

Namtars Lair Win no. III - Tinker Well, I'm good w tinkers I guess. Spellcaster setup with translocation + elites, Binlor into GG into EM. Picked up Enlightment with one row of beads, went EM for many refreshments. Found 2 kegs and it almost wasn't enough, the 4th form needed some fancy footwork and PISSORFF bussiness. Was fun just because I always find tinkers fun, but I'm not gonna let that mellow me out - Namtar's lair needs adjustments.

East Suggestion - Upp the difficulty of HARD Halls of Steel, because it's one of the easier HARD dungeons, remove the vicious HoS because it's an eyesore and ununiform with the rest of the game, move the vampire unlock quest here, and tone the damned place down - less walls for a start. If Binlor wasn't mandatory autoprep I'd consider going back in to try stuff out, this way it'll be a long time untill I do.

Image

I found that in the north, it's a Elite edition reward. The Titan Guitar is a one use item which makes all same screen enemies slowed and cowardly.

Demonic Library Win A wizard breezed through it with no B2P. I worshiped Drac throughout even though I had EM and prepped Binlor, I chugged all my health potions to add corrosion to the Avatar, killed all the zombies wantonly - The piety hits! They do nothing! And ended up completely avoiding the subdungeon challenge by simply WHEYTWUTTING the avatar close to the entrance and then WHEYTWUTTING the guy who had spawned on the stairs to where Avatar was... After all the Namtar hassle this looked like a joke, and I'm all the more convinced Namtar ought to be throughly toned down.

Writeup time! I'm not doing any more DL runs before I unlock another locker slot and/or the Mage Fist / Naga Cauldron bussiness gets resolved. Seeing how all you really need to beat him is WHEYTWUT, and how I beat him on a non-serious scouting run with great number of careless missplays, I think there is no point testing wise. So, the late game and challenge writeups are coming up, and I'll be doing a "post late game" playthrough notes while grinding gold to test out the monster classes, recently added/changed mechanics, and all that.
Last edited by Lujo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby The Avatar on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:27 pm

Yes to getting rid of VHoS and amping up HHoS.

No to Namtar being too hard. I can and have beat it with a fighter forced to convert into Mystera. It's not hard, it's just different. I actually quite like it.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:36 pm

The Avatar wrote:Yes to getting rid of VHoS and amping up HHoS.

No to Namtar being too hard. I can and have beat it with a fighter forced to convert into Mystera. It's not hard, it's just different. I actually quite like it.


Yes, well, you've beaten everything with everything :P And I've spent a month beating old Gaan'Telet over and over with anything while it was crashing, but the metrics showed I was one of maybe 5 people in the world who could or would or fond it that enjoyable... Compared to the rest of the dungeons Namtar's Lair it's nightmarish, and I just beat every other VICIOUS dungeon 3 times (well up to 3 times), and I'm pretty certain it's in its own world difficulty wise compared to the other stuff.

I've done harder stuff, this was just annoying as hell, and most of beating it revolved around sidestepping all of it's features. I've done all VICIOUS just now, without VICIOUS rewards, mind you, but seeing how with the current layout the east is a direction new players are likely to push, running into Namtars Lair has got to be horrifying... - every other one is significantly easier. It's not really different at all - it's a souped up Grimms Grotto which never got a questline so it wasn't ever moaned about as much as say Dragon Isles or Demonic Library, and was never unique enough like Naga City to have enough people doing it for fun...
Last edited by Lujo on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:33 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Darvin on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:46 pm

The Titan Guitar is a one use item which makes all same screen enemies slowed and cowardly.

That subdungeon really needs some exploration. Titan Guitar is completely redundant when worshipping Earthmother and of limited value if you did WEYTWUT farming earlier. It's not good enough to have an entire subdungeon all to itself.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby The Avatar on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:52 pm

and most of beating it revolved around sidestepping all of it's features.


I totally disagree. It is much more about res stacking, the other end o the spectrum. Also, I personally find DI much harder.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:05 pm

The Avatar wrote:
and most of beating it revolved around sidestepping all of it's features.


I totally disagree. It is much more about res stacking, the other end o the spectrum. Also, I personally find DI much harder.


No, no, what I ment was most of the gameplay I did to beat it involved sidestepping it's features. You can't disagree with that because I did it :D Didn't try res stacking though...

And DI is really really easy - fireball spam the guys who don't resist/retaliate, PISSORF the guys who do into each other, WHEYTWUT avatar next to entrance. I did it on a scouting run with no items of note and drac as my only deity. B2P would've made it even easier, and so would either Mysterea or EM most likely...
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby The Avatar on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:17 pm

Oh. I tend to go with a more melee approach. That makes sense though.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:32 pm

Here's something to chew over. I went in there to round up Warmonger, Parched and Miser. Did involve a dragonshield and a translocation scroll for a pair of Dvarwen Gauntlets on the last tile. Fewer Glyphs as well.

Image

Also, here's a bunch of moved/new post late game notes:

Gorgon note: - One thing to do about the Gorgon, among other things, could be to add the +1 gold to the statues she makes the way IMAWAL does. Wouldn't be much, but would be something...

Transmuter note: - I just did a flaming run in the Ick Swamp with a goblin transmuter - difficult but fun (in a sense that you get loads of resources thrown at you and you have to use them optimaly). Transmuters ability upon hitting the conversion threshold probably ought to be reworked somehow.

Cursed Oasis PQI Did it with a parched GG Orc Paladin and liked it. Had a fireheart in the shops and it was fun.

Big Like From a sheer wonder perspective Cursed Oasis is up there with the best maps in the game. Props to the devs for coming up with it ^^

Like The way Mage Fist works with priests. Try it in a non-serious setting with something to up your mana.

Noticed and went o.O The lvl 5 Zombie which rises out of one of the graves in the tombstones subdungeon (the one with the "refference" to us forums guys), anyway, the dead git drops a pair of elven boots when you kill him. Wow.

Noticed and went o.O Apparently, a Paladin with B2P and enough Blackspace can go infinte. It's terribly blackspace inefficent, sure, but on the other hand - you can spike stuff, be sure you'll kill it, gain Mysterea piety or CB charges and explore at the same time. This ought to be exploitable somewhere...

Vampire Note A purist vampire can clean the Den and the Venture cave. I did have to mana potion spike the Goo in the Cave, but if I had B2P I would've just turned megacaster on his ass. Securing a bunch of CP seems to be the way to play him.

"Popcorn" subdungeon - has 3 warlocks inside which is a weird choice when you consider that they cost mysterea users 5 piety each, and would give Taurog users +8 each. Just about anything that isnt a goblin or a gorgon would be more appropriate, or so it seemed to me just now...

Like - new poison Power level be damned, I'm loving the fact that you can poison first an fireball later, that you can set off burning by accident an not lose the poison, that you can clear a chokepoint and not lose the poison, etc, etc...

CO PQI Win I managed an Unstoppable Halfling Rogue without the Tri-Sword, off of a pair of Gaultets that were in the backpack after the Vampire win. Was intense, and had me in a really tight spot at the end - health potion spiking something while being stuck in TT with GG as your only other choice is scary stuff...

Slime Pits PQI Win A Purist Elven Tinker walked out of there with Purist, Specialist, Ding! Max and Unstoppable. TT worship all the way, and the new poison might be just a tad too much on the "optimized for halpmeh" side. Three helpings and a lvl 8-9 ensured the SMM never regenerated anything. I also didn't touch the Metal Spider temple. Popcorn walled off subdungeon + WONNAFYT + Tiki's Edge is really nice ^^

-.- - And now the PQI is right back in CO. At least it's something remotely playable. Luckily the flaming subdungeon is southern swamp, and I'm hesitant to move it in case it gives me another parched elven priest when it rotates over to Slime Pits :D
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby Lujo on Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:28 pm

I regret nothing!

Image

No pactmaker either. It was. NOT. easy. I didnt scum for anything either, and I figured out what's wrong with CO, apart from the general unfamiliarity, and whatever other things are wrong with it.

It has no subdungeon! I don't know if it has a walled off one, either, but it has no subdungeon, and that's huge on it's own.
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Re: Playthrough notes

Postby FDru on Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:50 pm

Lujo wrote:It has no subdungeon! I don't know if it has a walled off one, either, but it has no subdungeon, and that's huge on it's own.


I've done excessive amounts of CO runs lately (it is the burning dungeon way too often) and I can safely say it never has a walled off subdungeon. Sometimes the wall can spawn connected to the unbreakable walls in the middle and give the appearance of a possible subdungeon, but every time I've bothered to reveal it there was just more unbreakable walls.
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