About the priest...

[Lujo]

It might be interesting to give the Priest one or more deity-related abilities, since oddly the Church lacks those generally. (Paladin's monotheism, and that's it. If we count the Crusader as an honorary Church member then we also get the extra altar, but if we do that then I get to complain about how the Fighter's Guild needs a fourth tier member. )

What if the Priest got Scout: Altar? Not the really powerful one that was formerly a prep, just show the one tile for each altar in the dungeon. Maybe a built in Agnostic Collar? Call it "Sanctification" and let him desecrate rival altars for free. That'd get the indulgences and piety covered. Both would also maybe be useful teaching tools for the power of deities / the power of desecrating.

(I actually don't think the Priest has a significant problem worshiping GG. Now, yes, the Halfling Priest has a tough time, but that's more because Halflings, like Gnomes and Goblins, don't get along too well with the old man. Those of us who aren't obsessed with the various "drink a ridiculous number of potions" strategies make do just fine by keeping a careful eye on available piety and altars to convert into or desecrate.)

Good points - the problem with the omnipresentness of halfling priests is that currently the priest really lacks options having to focus on the 100% hp ability because nothing synergizes openly with the other two too well. Well, I guess we can pretty much agree on

1) Undead Scouting is an interesting idea (most of us seem to agree, but it might turn out to be a huuuuuge thing - but would deffinitely make him more solid)
2) Indulgences or some ease in getting them (free desecrations, indulgences on mana potion drinking, starts with a bunch, whatever)
3) Some other way to make him more priestly (well, some of us agree on that)

(EDIT: Also, for the forum vets - this is Lujo asking for a buff. How often does this happen?)

EDIT: Also, Darvin, you said you didn't like any of the proposals - why? What do you think?

[harfatum]

I'm not hugely in favor of the suggestions.

The light one, because it doesn't make a ton of sense to tie the priest more to undead.

The others, because I don't think they go with the "teaching" purpose of the class.

[Lujo]

I'm not hugely in favor of the suggestions.

The light one, because it doesn't make a ton of sense to tie the priest more to undead.

The others, because I don't think they go with the "teaching" purpose of the class.

Can you explain? I'm curious...

Having Scout: Undead would only make his undead fighting capabilities more dependable - he has very little leveling abilities unless you go halfling and burn potions. I personaly think this would be a huge buff, but I also feel the priest needs one.

And as for teaching - what is he teaching right now? He plays like nothing else out there - and the quality interactions with gods he might have require giving up on his abilities or working around them to a degree which takes expirience. Case in point - finding the GG altar on a priest run (which is likely) is very detrimental to the run itself. Being able to use a few potions in GG (with appropriate warning) would help out a lot.

[Abraxas]

Just dropping by to remind everyone that anything deity related for the Priest is a no-go. It's still a tier 1 class, so religion related abilities are too advanced for it.
I kind of like the idea of Scout: Undead, but the Priest is already too much of a straightforward/brainless, even in high level play, and this ability would make them even more so, so it might not be the best idea.

[Lujo]

And that's why I think it'd turn out fine - he's straightforward to the point of being brainless anyway, but the only option you have (going for undead and potion spiking the boss) too often isn't even on par with other options. It's not like you can really mix it up in any reasonable fashion, this way you'd still be doing the only thing you really can but would at least always find the undead - just knowing where they are would open up possibilities for smart play.

Because right now, on 2 boss levels he fails miserably unless you're really good, or a halfling with the dumbsword. And on maps which waste your exploration anyway, you waste even more exploration looking for the select few fights at any level which are advantageous for you. With scouting you'd be able to put your exploration/utility glyphs to good use, and if it turns out broken the trisword and halflings would finaly get whats coming to them ^^

[Sidestepper]

I like the idea of undead sense, since it gives him a reliable source of non-consumable leverage. I also like the indulgence idea. Misclick protection is the gentlest possible introduction of religion possible, and it would make GG Priests somewhat workable. I also *ahem* like my idea of replacing his flat health bonus with a percentage bonus.

[Lujo]

I also *ahem* like my idea of replacing his flat health bonus with a percentage bonus.

Me too, except it might screw up counting a bit. Probably not too much. Well the discussion was worthwhile - the issue WAS there (and IS). I mean, the basic gameplay of the priest:

Look for undead - kill undead - save popcorn - potionspike + ding off the popcorn

would remain the same, except

1) If you could scout for undead the strat would be more dependable, and become stronger as a player learns to leverage his utility glyphs
2) With a few indulgences you oculd even leverage tricky healthmonster-friendly gods, as well as learn about gods without getting horribly screwed over the second you try playing like you're supposed to in case of GG and Drac
3) With a % based health boost he'd be more unique and less dependen on levels - not sure that wouldn't be too powerfull (since you'd be getting more bang for buck with items you can buy at lvl 1).

[Lujo]

Oh, and one more thing - the current priest has major problems with Slime Pits. He'd have problems with any other dungeons of that type, but Slime Pits are a perfect storm of conditions which the priest doesn't like.

Thing is - he can't go undead hunting because of the weakening zombies (only undead on the map I think), and the bosses are The Goo (Priest being lackluster in the magic department) and SMM (whom the priest CAN tank, but the priest is a potion spiker rather than a regan fighter unless you scum really hard / go mad with preps, and a decked out priest is basicaly a player controlled SMM). Sure, it's probably doable with the Triling, but what isn't?

Anywho, Slime Pits were always "that dungeon designed to give Monks fits", but I don't remember the priest ever warranting that kind of hate. Just saying.

[q 3]

Here's a crazy (?) idea: have the Priest heal weakening and corrosion on level-up. It fits with the RPG Priest "healer" style, isn't dependent on potions, isn't overpowering in easy dungeons but gives him an interesting niche in hard/vicious, and also directly solves the Slime Pit complaint, turning the weakening zombies into nice bonus XP fodder.

EDIT: Also, as far as "teaching" goes, encouraging the Priest to become weakened/corroded by promising to cure it afterwards could help teach players (like me ) not to always fear and shun those status ailments as game-enders.

[The Avatar]

Very true. Those status effects make thief gold look nightmarish (despite it being one of the easiest golds).