The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

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The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby Sidestepper on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:37 pm

I thought I would bring this up one last time. With the recent drama the timing might be bad, so let me make it clear that this isn't about making demands or rage-quitting or feeling an entitlement to the creative process, this is me being a good beta tester and reporting an issue that interferes with the enjoyment of the game.

Limited locker space is really draining the joy out of endgame play for me. Even with a hacked gold account and all 9 slots enabled, locker selection is not so much a choice as it is a tax on the fun. I've seen lots of novel strategies discussed that got me interested in exploring new preps, but my excitement waned the moment that I realized I would have to scum tinker runs over and over again looking for the specific item. Lujo got me interested in the crystal ball again, recent discussion has made me want to try out the new Balanced Dagger, new talk about the Mage Fist makes it sound interesting, and I would really like to test out an Orb of Zot prep.

I haven't done any of these because after ten minutes of grinding Gaan Telet, I said, "This isn't fun, why am I doing this?" and did something else instead. I will probably never try out those preps because even if I do find them in a run and can afford to buy them without throwing the game, using them means replacing some other staple and the knowledge that I will just have to grind again when the novelty wears off really kills the excitement.

The thing is, we have unlimited locker space, there's just a 10-20 minute tax that you have to pay to use it. I propose that we replace that mechanic with an actual interface. My ideal solution would be to have a screen showing an empty slot for every item in the game. As we unlock new items (and maybe bring back a prototype from a dungeon) we could pay a fee to add that item to the kingdom inventory. That item would then be available as a prep forever. This means that players can experiment with janky or suboptimal items without having to pay 10-20 minutes of their real time.

I know you guys have stated flatly that you are against unlimited locker space, but I want to make one last appeal. It is just stone cold not fun and either drives players towards using only a narrow selection of the content or introduces grinding into a game that is otherwise pleasantly devoid of grinding.
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby The Avatar on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:44 pm

As long as they'll let us pay exorbitant prices for extra lockers, why not exorbitant prices for permanent ownership. At least make it an option to purchase an unlocked item from the Kingdom's Bazaar and then locker it. It leaves meaningful choice without annoying people and wasting time.
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby Bloggorus on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:45 pm

I'm in favour of this but only during post-game.

Keep the locker as it is until you beat Hard GT, then let players tinker with strats to their hearts content.

Devs, please, PLEASE consider this. Nothing worse that wanting to try out some random strategy to beat some random PQI and have to spend ten minutes scumming for an item.
Last edited by Bloggorus on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby Sidestepper on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:47 pm

That is not a bad compromise. I like it. It's really only a problem in the late game, when you have unlocked all the content, Horatio is no longer breathing down your neck, and you just want to stretch your DD muscles and try new things. But once you get to that point, ooooggggg, it is a serious issue. It feels like a tax on fun, not a tax on in-game resources.

Linking permanent ownership to late game achievements helps preserve the original intent while allowing advanced players the freedom to experiment. I can think of lots of ways of introducing unlocks, but trust the devs' creativity to invent their own if thye think that this is reasonable.
Last edited by Sidestepper on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby Bloggorus on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:51 pm

Yeah, I think the lack of distinction between the real game and 'postgame' content has hurt development in the long run.

Here we all are clamouring for more options in the game, and when we get them they are hurting the overall experience.

Marking a serious divide between the 'economy' and the 'sandbox' parts of the game should go a long way in helping define how some mechanics like lockers and the bank are implemented.
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby Bloggorus on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:02 pm

Sidestepper wrote:That is not a bad compromise. I like it. It's really only a problem in the late game, when you have unlocked all the content, Horatio is no longer breathing down your neck, and you just want to stretch your DD muscles and try new things. But once you get to that point, ooooggggg, it is a serious issue. It feels like a tax on fun, not a tax on in-game resources.

Linking permanent ownership to late game achievements helps preserve the original intent while allowing advanced players the freedom to experiment. I can think of lots of ways of introducing unlocks, but trust the devs' creativity to invent their own if you think that this is reasonable.


I'm very much in favour of removing some of the awesome late-game unlocks away from Vicious dungeons to make them less 'required' to feel like you've finished the game.

Those rewards and monster classes can easily go elsewhere, but permanent locker space seems like a pretty good reward for finishing Vicious dungeons.

As someone who has finished maybe 5 Vicious runs in my whole time playing, I definitely felt like I deserved more that some gold and an item that I already had at the end of a Vicious win.
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby FDru on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:03 pm

This becomes a big deal once you start clearing Vicious content. For someone (like myself) who can't consistently finish a Vicious dungeon, that's potentially hours of time wasted just attempting to pick up one of those items, so it makes sense to keep them lockered. As such, I only have 2 locker slots free (eventually 3, I suppose, but that is a long way off).

I could understand the devs' opposition to unlimited locker space, but at this point I think it's the best thing to do. Sidestepper's suggestion is excellent, but Avatar's idea has merit as well (paying a large fee to permanently unlock a specific item would be fine, since ultimately prepping any specific item is really just a gold sink anyway).
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby The Avatar on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:10 pm

Agreed. After you beat Horratio, they game should be "sandbox and gold sinks" mode. You should be able to play around with things, especially if you've also cleared Vicious. I'd say this makes a better reward for Vicious Gaan-Telet than 9999 gold, but that hurdle is probably a bit high for most people.
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby Bloggorus on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:11 pm

Hell, if you can beat Vicious GT then you should just unlock EVERYTHING.
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Re: The horse is not quite dead: Locker space and fun

Postby Darvin on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:12 pm

I've always been of this persuasion; once you reach the post-game, locker space is just a fun tax and should be replaced with some method of choosing any item you want. I strongly support this motion.
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