Bug Stomper

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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby Lujo on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:00 pm

xspeedballx wrote:Far from second ever.. Second on the new profile. Other profiles have cleared the place a few times. Latest profile has been a slow labor of love for last bunch of months though.


Are you by chance making notes? Those are usefull, and actually fun to keep - plus eveyone can benefit from you thoughts and you can get random illuminating advice as well as help devs see into different stages of a playthrough.



As for the whole potions thing - I think we've been spoiled all along. If you don't believe me think about this - for less than a hnudred gold you could take 5 of the following on any run:

1) A health/mana pot - small item with a million applications, among others cures either poison or mana burn and can be burned to help killing something above your level, can be converted for piety, either can fuel mana for a spike, and both fuel trisword or alchemist scroll.

2) A burn salve - which means you can clear all corrosive plants on a level and get away with it, remove any downside of martyr wraps, cure mana burn. fuel trisword and alchemist scroll, convert for GG piety, solve most of the problems with corrosive enemies or boss, and most important of all - with an EM altar directly translates to 30 piety and 3 indulgences which can win you the game on it's own and can be wholly prepped

3) A fortitude potion - admittedly, needs more uses in game if it's gonna get anywhere close in functionality to burn salve, but solves weakening bosses for resistance stackers, removes poisons and lets you remove poison while worshiping drac and GG

4) A STR potion - which lets you turn a mostly meaningless resource into a free early ding, which makes it a sligtly better early slayer wand with all potion traits, which you get on top of slayer wand

5) A schadenfraude potion - which lets you refill ANY mana pool and easily translates into a big stack of damage you simply wouldn't have at your disposal, as well as all potion traits

6) A Dodge potion - which let's you make the terrible choice of WHICH monster you want to hit for free for damage that can range all the way from "enought to kill a lvl4-5 at lvl1" to "hit a boss for more than a fifith of his health", and is an integral part of lvl1bosskill cheezing, on top of fueling potion related stuff

7) A Reflex potion - which can give you first strike against stuff you'd otherwise not be able to kill, save you resources needed to make one hit on a boss, or land 2 strikes on somethign that you would otherwise be able to hit only once.

8) A Whoopaz - which is what it is.


EDIT: In other words 5 slots ment you could clean out all the varios plants in a level, fuel stuff, grab 25 piety and 3 indulgences, significantly reduce any bosses hit points and grab a few levels on ANY RUN WITH ANYTHING. Now you have to choose a few of those on ANY RUN WITH ANYTHING. Caps becaue I feel it's hilarious, not necessary.


So, yeah, those things are really usefull (apart from Fortitude and the functional overlap between STR and Reflex), and you could bring 5 of them to any run with any class. I'm pretty sure we will cope with being able to bring "just" three ;)

As far as "is this enough" of a nerf to the trisword - probably not, but the right kind of nerf to the trisword would hurt nobody but the most extreme munchkins and would be felt only in places which could be reduced in difficulty as it is.
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby The Avatar on Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:25 pm

Beat Dragon Isles with a caster goblin assassin. I had pretty bad luck actually. There were no caster items (crystal ball, mage plate, pendent of mana, battlemage ring), I didn't get WEYTWUT, and I did't get Dracul. If I had gotten dracul and any caster item I could have gotten feeling parched too.

Image

I'm loving the new 120 damage on bosses.
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby The Avatar on Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:59 pm

Nailed down DL as well. You need to prep piercing wand. It's actually quite difficult. I won off a lucky dodge.
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby Lujo on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:25 pm

The Avatar wrote:Nailed down DL as well. You need to prep piercing wand. It's actually quite difficult. I won off a lucky dodge.


Piercing wand makes it quite a bit easier.

And then I notice who exactly said someting was difficult :shock:
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby The Avatar on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:50 pm

Piercing wand makes it doable. And I got lucky. The one thing that really hurt was not getting the battlemage ring, but it would still be hard with it. I also lucked out on the exploding signpost subdungeon for a third schadenfreude.
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby paplaukes on Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:14 pm

I dislike the potion changes. It would be nice to see the reasoning behind them. I hope it's not something along the lines of "well, you see, some of the vets were using them on each run so we thought it's a cool idea to make them harder to use for everyone".
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby gjaustin on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:17 am

paplaukes wrote:I dislike the potion changes. It would be nice to see the reasoning behind them. I hope it's not something along the lines of "well, you see, some of the vets were using them on each run so we thought it's a cool idea to make them harder to use for everyone".


This is actually a (relative) buff for beginners! You had to complete some difficult quests to unlock the 4th and 5th potion slots, so it flattens out the power curve.

And if you're good enough to unlock the potions, you can beat the Vicious dungeons too.
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby paplaukes on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:49 am

If I'm good enough to unlock the potions I wouldn't mind taking them along :)
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby Lujo on Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:22 pm

paplaukes wrote:If I'm good enough to unlock the potions I wouldn't mind taking them along :)


You seem more proud about doing that quest than I've been about most things I've done in my life. Was it really that hard?

And if you can look at it with an open mind, turn the page back and look at my listing of all the potions - some of their uses might not have been known to you before, and you can learn stuff in that case. What the nerf means is that now your choice of what potions to take into a run is a meaningful one - will you go for class synergy? Will you go for trisword fodder? Will you go for boss killing power? Will you go for early level catapults? Will you rely on your race for potions or secure them with a prep? Will you go for run specific utility or general power?

Instead of going for all at once with anything on any run.

Because many hazards lose all meaning with some of those things, which means they turn maps more generic. Now some maps gained some of their flavour and challenge back, which is how it was probably supposed to be all along.
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Re: Bug Stomper

Postby paplaukes on Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:57 pm

I nearly never went with all at once due to cost/not needing them that much. This does mean less power for runs I'm not certain I can win, and it would never lead to experimenting with them for extra combos due to limited slots.

I only replied to the unlock comment. It's just now the quest reward is much more limited and a "double-edged" one. Means I'm likely to ignore it just like the church preps. I learned the use of the pots/trisword on the forum alright I just don't really like using them that way. And it's now balanced around "that way", just like BLUDTOPOWA and the bloodmage.

You seem to think the potions make hard runs easy. They don't. They do for the select few vets, and don't always work either. Others have listed examples where rogues can fail and running out of potions is dangerous. IMO, for the majority of players the potions were 'merely' a buff which now buffs less.
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