Who is using the Trisword?

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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby Waldo0 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:07 pm

I agree that Trisword is not an AWESOME! item anymore after it is nerfed.

However, I think it is still a good item and I used to buy it for boss fights

IMO, 12gold and +7dmg are a pretty great thing.
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby Lujo on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:31 pm

Since we're in a bit of a slump concerning forum activity during the last few days, I've got an itch to go lengtly on this. Also costructive.

Sidestepper wrote:1) How often would you buy/prep the Trisword versus the already existing Fine Sword?


I have neither in my locker - which is the way I like it. Base damage boosters are solid enough to warant putting Darvins one time statement of "Too much base damage? No such thing!" in a sig. On the other hand they are rather plain, so I'll pick up either/both at almost any opportunity where I want to melee, but never really think of lockering them with something in mind. I'm also a regular "dip into taurog for the skullpicker" kind of person, and have had all 3 in my inventory on occasions. Blacksmith sword, however, I prep very rarely due to more interesting/powerful blackmith preps being available.

Sidestepper wrote:2) Do you feel that the Trisword is worth having in your shop pool?


Of course, I prefer it in my shop pool than in my locker, and I also kind of think that the "lockers charged" thing was unintentional.

As long as we're navel gazing anyway, I wonder if starting out with 7 damage lets you do more in a lvl1 fight than starting out with 2 damage and using a potion for a second hit with a charged trisword. Assuming ofc that noone was ment to stack +7 damage and the STR potion to one shot something unrealisticaly abouve your level (with slow or first strike). At least not for so little effort.

Sidestepper wrote:So my question isn't really "Is the Triswrod good?" because any item that grants non-trivial base damage is going to be good, but rather, "Is the Trisword competitive with existing methods of boosting base damage?"


Well the answer to that depends on how deep you want to go, and I'm interested in a lateral question related to it. Faulty, circumstantial and subjective analysis time!

So, what ARE the existing methods of boosting your damage? As far as I know:

1) Prepping Sensation Stone, Transmutation Seal and Extra Glyphs on an Orc. Stable +8 base dmge with little effort, more to come. Completely ties up several prep venues, is an outrageous "throwing money at the problem" approach, a bit on the busted side, sinergizes with several warmonger happy gods and probably beats any other approach. No inventory hassle, stable, leaves you with 20 gold if you run into any more dmg items. So while this works (no prep/class/race restrictions and money to burn) it pushes out anything dmg related out of my locker.

2) Fine Sword - well, I don't like having it lockered because it shows up in shops rather often due to being a basic item. It's incredibly solid and a no brainer pickup in many cases.

3) Dwarven Gauntlets - I hear this replaces the fine sword as a default dmg prep for a bunch of people, especially since it's a rare dmg boost bundled with troll heart in one package. It's likely my most commonly bought/translocated elite item.

4) Trisword - Basicaly a good second item to acompany any of the others. Since I don't ever prep any of the others except the Stonebomb combo, and didn't even when I didn't know about the stonebomb combo due to Trisword being the best prep in the game, it just got added to the catergory of "always pick up, never prep" things with the rest of the damage boosters. It really doesn't offer much over the fine sword, which is why I suggested the "stack +1 up to even for every potion you drink (prefferably only for basic potions)" imrovement.

And now for what interests me:

5) Martyr Wraps and Whurgarble! These compare badly to the rest in too many circumstances, and have too much functional overlap. Having both in the pool itched me so much that I decided to veto one (vetoed whurlgarble, but am picking the wraps up so rarely that I'm thinking of switching them up). Now, they have their uses, and can be bloodly stupid on some classes (especially paired up) but pretty much do the same thing - add damage to hybrids and %res stackers.



So, what I'd do is keep the stonebomb intact as a gold sink for the idle megavets, make the trisword a tad more distinct from the fine sword (it's not bad by any means and when it works it's practicaly a low priced +7 dmg item all the time anyway), but I'd do something about whurlgarble and martyr wraps.

Mayrtyr wraps shouldn't go back to what they were before because that'd make them a stupidly good pure caster item as opposed to a hybrid booster. If they didn't have the corrode on lvl-up I'd probably pick them up more often, and the corrode on lvl-up isn't that big of a deal for guys who want to use them. Keeping them as is but adding +1 regen to them (ala bloody sigil) would also be interesting.

As for whurlgarble - well, it DOES work different from martyr wraps in that it lets you stack burning and set off burining on enemies to get rid of DP's - but it's end damage has an actual cap and besides the utility it doesn't really beat MW. What to do?
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby dislekcia on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:32 pm

What the hell is the "stonebomb"?
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby The Avatar on Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:15 pm

Using fewer glyphs, a sensation stone, and a transmutation seal to get some obscene CP.

I don't know about changing Whurrgaburgle. It has an interesting niche as it helps spellcasters, regen fighters, and melee people alike. It's the missing link between all 3.
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby dislekcia on Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:38 pm

The Avatar wrote:Using fewer glyphs, a sensation stone, and a transmutation seal to get some obscene CP.


Right. Thanks.

When did that start getting its own name? Did I miss that?
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby Darvin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:55 pm

When did that start getting its own name? Did I miss that?

This is the first I've heard of the particular name "Stonebomb". I think Avatar may have just picked it out from context (which is often necessary with Lujo).

It's a good combo for some 1st level mayhem, but I don't think it's anything special since you have to divert pretty much all your preps to make it happen and it doesn't scale too well into higher levels.
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby Waldo0 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:56 am

The sensation stone has a same icon image with Stonebomb which can destroy walls.
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby Lujo on Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:03 am

dislekcia wrote:
The Avatar wrote:Using fewer glyphs, a sensation stone, and a transmutation seal to get some obscene CP.


Right. Thanks.

When did that start getting its own name? Did I miss that?


I didn't know what to call it and didn't want to inflate the post further with listing all the components. Didn't want to use inflamatory or derisive language to desctipe a possibly overly powerful effect or prep. So I thought the name up on the spot :oops: Not the best name since it works without the stone, but it's explosive... CP bomb?

Darvin wrote:It's a good combo for some 1st level mayhem, but I don't think it's anything special since you have to divert pretty much all your preps to make it happen and it doesn't scale too well into higher levels.


Pretty much, but most of the time if I feel like prepping damage 1.lvl mayhem is what I'm looking for. It's not bad with spellcasters as well, and pretty nuts with half-dragons and Tinkers. It also sets you up for a pretty strightforward gameplay so I like it for slogging through flaming runs which recover the prep cost easily. And alternative to altar prepping for warmongering.

Also, of note is that I don't prep Dwarven Gauntelts except sometimes out of the backpack because if I want % bonuses I ussually go for the bear mace and prep a different item (agnostic collar, the guitar, or some other utility item). Prepping bear mace with the stonebomb orc (and half dragon) is rather strong as well.


EDIT (and reshuffle and suggestion):

As for changing or not changing Whurgarble - I know, I was wondering about giving it and the wraps a small and stable up front secondary effect. For quite a while I find myself picking more strightforward stuff over them and not being too happy to see them in the pool.

I was thinking a +10% damage for Whurgarble - there is no item that gives +10% damage apart from the badge. Might make it too strong though with guys who already like it.

Now this may be completely unreasonable but I was thinking something like:

Martyr Wraps -> +1 regen buff
Whurgarble -> +10% damage

So you can add Bloody Sigil to the mix and have a "do it your self regen fighter" kit. Well, it allready is a do it yourself regen fighter kit, but even if it compares well to simply piling on damage resistance and dmg it's not obvious. The whole package might be too good with the stacking damage, the +2 regen and the guaranteed burning for a -1 regen, but the sinergies would be more obvious (whurgarble evens out bloody sigil, MW gets an "early purchase incentive" and whurgarble gets a "why not buy?" factor all dmg boosters have").

Alternatively, giving one of them a symbolic 10% knockback to spread that ability around was something that came to mind. What would that result in I'm not sure (but wraps are the obvious candidate, it even punishes leveling up just like the knockback god, binlor, does). Not in love with the idea but there it is.

And ultimately, MW could let you pierce 10% physical resistance, and whurgarble could let you pierce 10% magic resistance. Again, what this would result in I'm not sure, but the effect is scarce enough to warrant prepping the RBS, that I'm sure they'd get picked up on the fly more.
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby Darvin on Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:34 pm

Martyr Wraps -> +1 regen buff

Wait wait wait... you're suggesting buffing the Martyr Wraps? It's in the running for the best quest item in the game as it is (with both Trisword and Platemail knocked from grace, only the Vampiric Blade and Agnostic Collar are comparable in power)

A small buff to whurrgarbl, however, would be nice.
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Re: Who is using the Trisword?

Postby Sidestepper on Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:18 pm

Back in the day, when the Sensation Stone was worth 300 (I think) and orcs had stacking bonuses, we called the conversion seal + stone + orc combo the "Storc." Or at least some of us did. Or maybe it was just me.

I do feel you on the issue of the wraps and the fierey sword having the same problem as the Fine Sword and Trisword. Both are good items worth having but also do very nearly the same thing. I tolerate them both in my pool because the niche they fill is so good that it's worth having two shots but I still wish they played more differently than they did.
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