Choking up

[GoatBot]

Discussion - Choking up

[Darvin]

I'm not actually seeing a huge difference between the partial-choke and full-choke examples you gave for the labyrinth. Each of them has certain favourable and un-favourable aspects (not counting the existence of ENDISWAL/WEYTWUT, which opens up any layout). On closer inspection, I'd probably say the partial-choke is worse here since BURNDAYRAZ and HALPMEH are behind very powerful enemies, which means they won't come into play until very late, crippling any spellcasting-dependent class that doesn't have a built-in glyph or fireball magnet prep.

Of course, this is still a massive improvement on the old labyrinth. For those who weren't around back then, it was really "ENDISWAL or bust".

[Checkem]

@Darvin: I don't think the placement of Bunndayraz and Halpmeh are part of the choke algorithm, it's just a random layout. If you notice, the full choke places the enemies almost right behind each other very early in the dungeon's center. On the semi-choke you see the enemies placed on the corners very early where you can just go around them. You don't see the "full" choke placement until the end of each respective lane where the high level enemies lay.
I for one welcome our new labyrinth.

[Darvin]

[TheSchachter]

I think I see Darvin's point, but at the same time I can see how the monster placement is less "cloggy" in the second Labyrinth layout. I think this is just a case of other elements of the random generation creating a slightly tougher dungeon. That being said, my knowledge of the mechanics at play is basically nil, so I could be completely wrong...

I'm happy that monster placement in maze-y dungeons is being touched up a bit, since those ones always feel much more stiffling than the more open dungeons (to the point of occasional frustration). I'd like to ask: Are the Class Challenges going to be addressed as a part of this process? Some of them could definitely lose some choking while still being challenging.

Keep up the good work!

[dislekcia]

Darvin: A big thing we were looking to avoid was the clustering together of enemies, creating large areas of wasted exploration and essentially creating these difficult fights for new players who wouldn't know better than to explore everywhere. It took a while for us to actually understand that problem, seeing as we don't really play that way ourselves anymore (and neither do you), it started as a slight feeling of "boringness" to particular dungeon layout styles.

Again, we hope this feels better, if it turns out that it doesn't, we have a lot more control now and can tweak accordingly

[Darvin]

[dislekcia]

[Darvin]