Reward for completion

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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Lujo on Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:02 pm

Well, I liked the way my kingdom developed on the last playthrough, unlocking stuff fast ment I could tackle tricky stuff fast. But I'm in the "completion's it's own reward" demographic I guess.

The problem, though, seems to be that what you unlock in the beta is tools which seem necessary. In the alpha there was no CP (past the glyphs) and all gods started unlocked, while the classess were relatively easy to unlock. People will rush unlocks in the beta - I've tinker scummed for them occasionally just to give myself options.

So my line of reasoning is what I said up there - if players feel the need to rush unlocks to get to the "intended" number of shops, all classes and all preps, altars and stuff, and the perceived "intended" number means all unlocks asap, then the only way to reward the players is to start cutting unfair advantages on the other side. The players starts at an "option hendicap", but if it weren't way to late, the vicious dungeons could keep the player at the options hendicap unless proper completion was achieved. The end result would be proper "campaigns" in every direction to make inroads which would bring vicious down to your level once you've unlocked all the options and beat horatio.

And err, sorry if this looks like complete reiteration.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Kingdom of One on Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:15 pm

By the way, the missing epicness (from the quote) came from the way the kingdom map visually splurged out and completed so quickly. I haven't attempted a fresh kingdom with the new art in place but imagine it helps a little.

The progression of unlocking classes/gods/dungeons felt about right. I think it would put many players off to require full completion of a dungeon in the main quest/unlocks progression.

The original question was how to encourage people to go for full completions of dungeons.

I think a cosmetic reward would be enough and give a feeling of accomplishment. It's one thing to display the list of completions when you click on a dungeon and another to acknowledge a full completion with visual feedback on the overview screen. The first displays what you have done regardless of how much, the second directly acknowledges a full completion and tells you that the game has noticed your awesomeness.
A gold border around the completed dungeon in the dungeon overview screen would be enough (though maybe something like this is already planned for its final form?).
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby squirrelnest on Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:28 pm

I think you could make full completion more exciting without any balance changes or rewards at all.

Every time you finish a dungeon, big flashing letters pop up saying "JUST 14 CLASSES TO GO!!!" could be somewhere on the score screen, near the class icons. Even without any other reward, this would nudge anyone even slightly interested.

There's probably something to that effect in the works already, as the new score screen is a work in progress anyways.

Maybe once you finish all of a dungeon (103%) its icon on the map changes from a hexagon to a birthday cake? This kind of stuff would be fun.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Raz on Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:15 pm

I like both of the above ideas, some notable difference for a completed dungeon icon, and a bit of a git-r-done with comment like "Only 14 More Classes to go!". Either or both of these would be a nice nudge toward full completion (I know there is a gold reward or something, but I don't think it is stated yet). Lujo touches on a good point about the gods. They add a whole new dimension to the game (one I'll admit I'm still a bit shy of), and unlocking them does peak interest in experimenting. Challenges and Puzzles are also an added bonus, and they show up a bit slower in progression it seems- keeping alot of things fresh for later. :)
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Lujo on Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:35 pm

Well my idea's probably not implementable ATM, but might make a fine "campaigns" mode for an expansion ^^

Another thing besides the mentioned cosmetic rewards is somehow showing the "total completion rate". It might be disenhartening though - DD's actually a huuuuge game if you're going for total completion, and doing one run will not get you 1% (what would it be, 8 runs or something?)
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:02 am

Cosmetic stuff does keep you going, but i think permanent rewards would go so much further.

The alpha was good because it mixed up the big unlocks like classes and dungeons with a constant drip feed of unlocking gold by completing runs with new classes and races.

Now this increase in game gold has been moved to the bank and there's more of a disconnect between completion stats and increasing your overall power and options.

Grinding flaming dungeons is more efficient at making gold (and thus unlocking stuff) than completing dungeons with all characters, so the completion of dungeons is not really tied to anything at all. They are only there as an optional goal: you can unlock everything without finishing most dungeons with more than three characters.

I say bring back some kind of permanent, tangible reward for finishing dungeons. Locker slots, veto slots, 1 gold per dungeon, monster classes, whatever. The way i would rearrange things:

Easy dungeons: items
Normal dungeons: +1 starting gold.
Hard Dungeons: Veto slots
Vicious: locker slots

These items would still be unlockable with enough gold, but this gives you two ways to complete the game: through gold grinding or completionism.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby booooooze on Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:15 am

PQI and flaming are roughly equivalent for "grinding" gold, I find. If you go vicious flaming, it can get higher, particularly if you don't have the badge already on that dungeon, but otherwise it's roughly a wash (particularly as, for someone like myself, you'll probably be prepping more crap for the vicious option)

I've been hammering PQI for a few weeks now (well, 4-10 a day). I still have barely hit 50% of classes on most dungeons (on my most recent playthrough, which is the one I've spend the most time on). It's just for fun, for me, to force me to play dungeons I don't like much (cursed oasis), classes I don't play much (lots), and badges I don't get much (hoarder).

I hate hoarder.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:48 am

booooooze wrote:I've been hammering PQI for a few weeks now (well, 4-10 a day). I still have barely hit 50% of classes on most dungeons (on my most recent playthrough, which is the one I've spend the most time on). It's just for fun, for me, to force me to play dungeons I don't like much (cursed oasis), classes I don't play much (lots), and badges I don't get much (hoarder).

I hate hoarder.


So are you doing PQI becasue you want a challenge, for gold or for completion?

I'm interested in whether you would be playing these dungeons with different races and classes if there were tangible rewards attached to completion.

I find PQI quite challenging, but i think it is more suited to the stage in the game where you have 'seen' most things, namely finished most dungeons with most classes. If there were decent quests for dungeon completion, I see the PQI as a hardcore addition to that, as well as a great way to push yourself when you have clocked everything. It would make PQI runs contribute to game progression in a more meaningful way.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby booooooze on Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:26 am

Reasons for doing PQI:

1) curiosity. I wasn't entirely sure how it would do things. I hadn't done them much. There are still some that I generally won't do (hoarder vampires are up there)
2) locker/veto slots. Mostly locker. I don't remember who it was, sidestepper maybe, who got them all. Might as well try.

Completion isn't really on my radar, if only because I don't see it as a goal that's even on the horizon. Even if they'd give me keyboard controls, I'm likely 40-80 hours of play from completion on this account, in reality probably longer. That's a lot. I like DD, but I probably only play a few hours a day, at most.
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Re: Reward for completion

Postby Lujo on Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:01 pm

Several people got all locker/veto slots.

I actually do PQI/flaming for the completion. With flaming runs you can choose what you play, so I prefer the gold incentive to go somewhere and then pick whatever I'm missing there. PQI generally picks something you haven't played in a dungeon, so if you don't want to grind completion but still want to get it all in the end just alternating between flaming/PQI will get you there. This is why I consider that "there's no such thing as grinding gold" - the gold venues are also completion venues, and completion = playing the game...

But it's a long damned game, and if you put anything important behind a dungeon completion it's going to be disenhertening - especially when you realize how many dungeons (and concequently runs) there are out there.
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