Suggestion: At some point, abolish money; Also, encyclopedia

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Suggestion: At some point, abolish money; Also, encyclopedia

Postby fall_ark on Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:19 pm

Disclaimer: These suggestions are in no way complaints about the current version. I'd be happy to see them in the final version though.

1. At some point, abolish preparation cost / Kingdom gold altogether

I'm currently at the point where money doesn't really matter anymore -- all available upgrades bought, all dungeons unlocked. Only one or two special mission left. With more than 7000 gold sitting in the bank, I really can't see myself doing anything for money. And if I did ~30 runs trying to beat some impossible dungeon losing ~200 preparation gold everytime, and finally drop under, say 500 gold, I'd simply do some grinding in a normal or easy dungeon. Yet the very thought of spending money make me cringe. That's not fun.

Although the full game will no doubt provide tons of more stuffs to buy, upgrade and prepare, the simple truth is: a) At one point kingdom money will have no other use than preparation. b) The pressure of grinding/preparation cost discourages the player from trying new race/class/preparation/dungeon combinations, especially weird and outlandish things that challenges common sense.

Preparation is a headache. And weird things are fun. Trying new things and dying in different ways are fun. Having to worry about the cost of dying, is not.

Therefore I humbly suggest that in the final version, at certain point of the game -- say, when all (or maybe 90% or something) of kingdom upgrades are done, and you have more than maybe 5000 or 10000 gold -- have an option/upgrade to abolish kingdom gold or preparation cost. Like, 10000 gold for the upgrade "Sustainable Economy" that fixes the preparation cost to 0.

Same logic applies to locker items -- but other players have indeed raised the concern and there's not much to add.


2. In-game Encyclopedia, of monsters, items, deities and everything

Nothing too special. Just an in-game encyclopedia/gallery/catalogue/handbook sort of thing that allows you to view monster stats, item properties, race and class descriptions, deity details, etc. anytime and anywhere you want.

It could be gradually unlockable, like revealing the complete stats of a monster requires killing them 100 times or something (3 or 4 times for bosses). Angering/Being punished by deities reveals the specific rule in the handbook. Beating a certain dungeon several times reveals some info like the enemy types it spawns, the special sub-dungeons and events, etc. etc..

Basically the majority of the contents, the more common stuffs, should all be cleared by the time the "building/expanding" stage of the game is done. The remaining stuffs should correspond nicely with the harder dungeons and challenges, providing some extra incentives for players to complete them. 'Cos you know, when players see a percentage, they want to see it at 100%.

Plus it'd be super helpful and provide a change in pace/a little break. Sure it's basically a not-so-complete in-game wiki, but it'd be really nice.


Anyway, that's my two cents! Now for dreaming, I wish there's kind of a customizable "misclick alert" menu in the game, so I won't die accidentally, or piss of Glowing Guardian when I forgot about something....that might be too spoon-feeding though. Players may soon ask for a regret button....
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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money; Also, encyclop

Postby Galefury on Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:37 pm

I suggested something similar to your first point a while ago. But it seems my post was too long for people to actually read, and it also included some other stuff. I agree that preparations should become free at some point to silence that pesky nagging voice in my head telling me not to spend so much of my entirely useless gold. Even if gold was still useful late in the game preparations should be free to encourage experimentation and fun and eliminate the possible need to grind just to be able to play with the preparations you are used to.
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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money; Also, encyclop

Postby Intoxicatious on Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:25 pm

I, too, would like a bestiary. Currently, we are not allowed to mouse-over an enemy and then mouse-over cetain traits of said enemy. I would definitely raise my hand for an encyclopedia built into the game. Why did I have to be afflicted by corrosion for the first time to find out what it does and that leveling doesn't get rid of it?
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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money; Also, encyclop

Postby PeaceChaser on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:40 pm

I almost started a post similar to both of these topics. However, I disagree with your approach to kingdom money. I think there could be clever ways to put cash sinks into the game that you could perpetually spend money on, like an increasing cost to open up more locker slots, slightly increased conversion efficiencies on races (maybe?) at a point or two per purchase, etc.

Definitely thumbs up on the bestiary though.
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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money

Postby MeVII on Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:38 pm

Greetings:

The abolition of kingdom gold would be an inappropriate solution.
The goal should be overcoming kingdom gold obsolescence by creating more things to do with it.

"A game is a series of interesting choices." - Sid Meier

Also, as mere coincidence (the above quote and this example), Civilization was one of the first games to include an in game "Civlopedia". I not only agree that DTD should definitely add an equivalent, but such in game information databases should really be a standard for all games.
The idea to my mind, ranks up there with the idea that everything in all games should either have roll-over tool-tip help, or right click help, or best of both, roll-over tool-tips that when right clicked on open expanded details (in the game encyclopedia) for the clicked upon object.


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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money

Postby PeaceChaser on Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:20 pm

MeVII wrote:
"A game is a series of interesting choices." - Sid Meier

MeVII


Maybe for Sid Meier, but then again, he's not known for making Quake 3 Arena.
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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money

Postby MeVII on Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:23 pm

Greetings:

Your not thinking on the level of global fundamentals.

Quake and other games of similar design are also incorporate a series of interesting choices.
For example...
1. Will you go for the rocket gun first, or go the opposite way and get the heavy armor?
2. You saw an opponent out of the corner of your eye, it is obvious they didn't see you.
However, your life is low, and you only have 22 shots with your plasma gun.
Do you attempt to get behind him and score a quick frag, or focus on improving your health?
3. Your playing a game with 10 people on a small map. Will you attempt to lockdown a small area that you control,
or will you free roam and simply gain frags by being an opportunist?
4. You were giving chase and about to score a frag, but another player joins the fray and targets you. Do you...
run away? or Try and kill the weakened opponent? If you succeed, will you then run? Or try and take on the new opponent as well?

I could go on easily and create quite a lengthy list. I would pose that even RTS, and FPS require a multitude of decisions that need to be made. It is an absolute that any game that requires thought to win requires decisions. In a good game those decisions are interesting, in a poor game they are just decisions that do not engage the player at all. Only games that are pure chance, that require no decisions, would be an exception.

MeVII


PeaceChaser wrote:
Maybe for Sid Meier, but then again, he's not known for making Quake 3 Arena.
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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money; Also, encyclop

Postby Intoxicatious on Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:30 pm

It's a shame that most games today rely on user generated wikis (which are online even when the game is offline) for basic information. Some games don't even include an instruction manual or in-game training.

On that note, I still think this game would benefit from more puzzles in the Explorers' Guild that have to do with appeasing/not upsetting gods.
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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money

Postby fall_ark on Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:15 pm

MeVII wrote:Greetings:

The abolition of kingdom gold would be an inappropriate solution.
The goal should be overcoming kingdom gold obsolescence by creating more things to do with it.

"A game is a series of interesting choices." - Sid Meier

MeVII



The problem is not kingdom gold obsolescence. The problem is that preparation equals grinding. No one likes grinding so players are discouraged from trying new and different preparations. Abolishing gold removes preparation cost and thus encourage players to try more things, opening myriads of interesting choices to them.

If kingdom gold can do more things it'd be cool. I've got no problem with that. Just abolish preparation cost then.
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Re: Suggestion: At some point, abolish money

Postby MeVII on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:32 am

-
Greetings:

I apologize Quote [1] is what I was focusing my input on. However, the summary of Quote [2] I agree with completely.
I will even admit that I have never brought items from the lockers because the cost isint worth it to me.
Here are some ideas I thought of to revolutionize the prep cost.

1. The entire kingdom could gain "XP". The XP could be a combination of XP gained by heros and the total level of upgraded buildings etc... As it gains levels players would receive preparation slots, and a preparation allowance.
At first you can only select 1 prep. As you get more of an allowance you can select "bigger" options, but still only one at a time. Untill you can select two etc...

2. The preps themselves are permanent, and either "grow" via hero XP collection, or you pay one time fees to level them up. So for example, the prep that reveals shops reveals 1, then 2 etc ... you could also pay to upgrade the radius that is exposed.

3. Preps can be gained permanently after completing special quests. Once you find the "Sword of Absolute Doom", it belongs to the kingdom, and so any hero can use it.
3.2 However, while preps would be free, if any hero dies while using it, the prep is "lost", until found again, or made permanent again my repurchasing it.

Lastly, this is a very good idea.
Intoxicatious wrote:I still think this game would benefit from more puzzles in the Explorers' Guild that have to do with appeasing/not upsetting gods.


MeVII

[1]
fall_ark wrote:I'm currently at the point where money doesn't really matter anymore -- all available upgrades bought, all dungeons unlocked. Only one or two special mission left. With more than 7000 gold sitting in the bank, I really can't see myself doing anything for money.


[2]
fall_ark wrote:The problem is not kingdom gold obsolescence. The problem is that preparation equals grinding...
...If kingdom gold can do more things it'd be cool. I've got no problem with that. Just abolish preparation cost then.

-
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