Weakest race/class combos

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Weakest race/class combos

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:56 am

Everyone talks about the strong combos, but what are the standout worst ones? I'm not so much looking for the weakest character (because then the answer would be Fighter/anything), but the ones with the least synergy.
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby q 3 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:28 am

Least synergy:

Gnome Transmuter (for obvious reasons)

Elf Monk (a big MP bar that you'll never refill except by wasting HP regen)

Elf Sorcerer (redundant; better off as Gnome 99% of the time)

Dwarf Priest (redundant; better off as Halfling 99% of the time)

Elf/Dwarf Thief (see above)

Elf Bloodmage (used to be a solid alternative to Gnomes; not so much now that their mana potions are utterly broken)

Goblin Berserker (the one instance where you really don't want to level up too quickly)

~

Usually bad but with some powerful combos:

Halfling Rogue (sans Trisword, or Alchemist Scroll, or JJ's health boon; okay, so they're actually pretty good)

Orc Wizard (sans PISORF or Mana Leak + BICEPS, both of which make for powerful combos)
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby harfatum on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:56 am

I'd say an Elf or Gnome priest has less synergy than a Dwarf. More health = more potion refill, so you are still synergizing even though Halfling generally synergizes better.
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby gjaustin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:18 am

My thoughts on best and worst races for each class. I've included a couple in the best for where slightly different strategies are helpful.

Best Fighter - Orc/Halfling
Worst Fighter - Gnome

Best Berserker - Orc/Halfling/Dwarf (Varying mixes of damage vs. survivability)
Worst Berserker - Gnome

Best Warlord - Gnome
Worst Warlord - Dwarf

Best Thief - Halfling
Worst Thief - Human (No synergy at all)

Best Rogue - Dwarf
Worst Rogue - Gnome

Best Assassin - Goblin
Worst Assassin - Gnome

Best Priest - Halfling
Worst Priest - Gnomes

Best Monk - Orc
Worst Monk - Elf

Best Paladin - Orc/Halfling/Dwarf (See Berserker)
Best Paladin for Mystera/Crystal Ball Abuse - Human with the 2 attack to 2 mana prep
Worst Paladin - Gnome

Best Wizard - Not sure, probably Human or Orc
Worst Wizard - Dwarf

Best Sorcerer - Human with 2 attack to 2 mana prep
Worst Sorcerer - Dwarf

Best Bloodmage - Gnome
Worst Bloodmage - Halfling

Best Transmuter - Not playing the class
Worst Transmuter - Playing the class (I've always hated the Transmuter)

Best Tinkerer - Orc
Worst Tinkerer - Goblin

Best Crusader - Orc
Worst Crusader - Elf
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby q 3 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:36 am

harfatum wrote:I'd say an Elf or Gnome priest has less synergy than a Dwarf. More health = more potion refill, so you are still synergizing even though Halfling generally synergizes better.


Priests already have a health boost; there's diminishing returns on each additional boost, which makes the Dwarf conversion less valuable. Since Priests don't have any MP boosts, but still benefit from magic power, the added value of Elf/Gnome conversions is relatively higher.

Humans really don't have poor synergy with anything, other than Monks during that brief period when they were at an absurd -3 base damage per level. Unless you're going magic-only, you're going to be hitting things, and Humans are more reliable about hitting things harder than any other race (Orcs are often better at hitting things, but only if you go on a conversion binge, which you can't always do, making them less reliable). And since magic-only is a sub-optimal strategy for Thieves, Humans make good Thieves.

Dwarf Warlords are actually pretty solid, at least in certain circumstances. They have the easiest time getting to that sweet spot where you can get three hits (with enough max HP to survive the first), instead of merely two, allowing for higher level kills earlier. Elves also do decently in that regard if they find GETINDARE (WEYTWUT is an option, too, but it's not all that cheaper than CYDSTEPP itself).

Gnome Assassins used to be pretty awesome, although I haven't seriously tried one since the much-lamented loss of Blood Power. I suspect that a JJ Gnome Assassin would rock pretty hard.
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby Darvin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:38 am

Gnome Transmuter (for obvious reasons)

Just visit your local alter of Jehora Jeheyu, and he'll set you right up ;-)


Elf Sorcerer (redundant; better off as Gnome 99% of the time)

Redundant != Bad

While I agree that this combo is overshadowed, it's by no means a bad combo.


Elf Bloodmage (used to be a solid alternative to Gnomes; not so much now that their mana potions are utterly broken)

Some leeway is introduced thanks to the Crystal Ball, but with my Jehora/Mystera only unlock account it's completely ridiculous.


Orc Wizard (sans PISORF or Mana Leak + BICEPS, both of which make for powerful combos)

Orc Wizard needs to find either HALPMEH or PISORF. If he can get these he's golden, if he can't he's sub-optimal. I hardly consider that bad, especially given the Orc Rogue (prior to the CYDSTEPP neutering) was even more restrictive.



Best Fighter - Orc/Halfling
Worst Fighter - Gnome

Maybe I'm biased running a Jehora-based strategic deity unlock, but I have a great deal of difficulty calling gnomes the weakest race for any class. I'd say Transmuter and Berserker are the only classes they're even in the running for the title of "weakest".


Best Assassin - Goblin
Worst Assassin - Gnome

You joking? Gnomish Assassin is a kick-ass caster. Between swift hands XP catapults and gnomish potions, his damage spiking potential is second-only to the Bloodmage.


I suspect that a JJ Gnome Assassin would rock pretty hard.

They do; I reproduced that Dragon Isles run with a JJ Gnome Assassin a few weeks back, and intend to do it again for my Half-Dragon unlock. (edit - just got it on the second try. Used Amulet of Yendor mid-battle to get to level 10, then used swift hands on her guards for a two milestones. Wasn't even close to running out of resources)


Anyways, Gnome/Elf Berserker/Monk is my vote for weakest combinations.
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby Gorgon on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:57 pm

Best Tinker: Dwarf/Human
Worst Tinker: Elf

Best Crusader: Orc/Goblin
Worst Crusader: Gnome

Best Wizard: Gnome/Orc
Worst Wizard: Dwarf

Best Sorcerer: Elf/Gnome/Dwarf (for halls of steel)
Worst Sorcerer: Orc

Best Bloodmage: Gnome/Dwarf (for physical approach)
Worst Bloodmage: Goblin

Best Rogue: Dwarf/Orc
Worst Rogue: Elf

Best Assassin: Goblin
Worst Assassin: Orc

Best Paladin: Goblin/Elf/Human
Worst Paladin: Dwarf


Weakest combination: Goblin Berserker (Elf Berserker can use CYDSTEPP, at least).
Last edited by Gorgon on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby gjaustin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:16 pm

Darvin wrote:
Best Fighter - Orc/Halfling
Worst Fighter - Gnome

Maybe I'm biased running a Jehora-based strategic deity unlock, but I have a great deal of difficulty calling gnomes the weakest race for any class. I'd say Transmuter and Berserker are the only classes they're even in the running for the title of "weakest".


Best Assassin - Goblin
Worst Assassin - Gnome

You joking? Gnomish Assassin is a kick-ass caster. Between swift hands XP catapults and gnomish potions, his damage spiking potential is second-only to the Bloodmage.


I am not a fan of Gnomes in general. They give you no early game advantage unless you scum for JJ and, unlike Halflings, they don't get Trisword.

For the Assassin, why would you go Gnome when you can go Elf? Elf lets you cast a Fireball followed by Poison (or even two Fireballs) which lets you get to a higher level much faster and leave much more enemies around for XP catapults. But really, a caster Assassin does not seem the way to go at all.
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby TigerKnee on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:05 pm

Wait, Dwarf as best Tinker? Why?
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Re: Weakest race/class combos

Postby Gorgon on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:52 pm

Unless you are regen-fighting, dwarf is better for physical matters. After all, there are many items that raise resistances, and resists are nice with HP.

Human is a good Tinker, too.
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