All you're doing is making the game harder...

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All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby Herborist on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:04 pm

Why were Taurog's piety costs raised?

The dungeons are already too hard, and now they're harder. I'm seriously considering asking for a refund at this rate... >.>
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby dislekcia on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:44 pm

Herborist wrote:Why were Taurog's piety costs raised?

The dungeons are already too hard, and now they're harder. I'm seriously considering asking for a refund at this rate... >.>


We tend to start at crazy difficulties and pull the challenge down over time. It's better to know what's beyond most players early on rather than hope you're tweaking the right variables to make things more challenging when everyone's already played everything on easy mode so you can't get people to try "the same dungeons" over again.

Things will get easier over time as we get a better feel for the content. DD is a complex game and it'll take time to get it perfect.
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby Herborist on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:57 pm

dislekcia wrote:
Herborist wrote:Why were Taurog's piety costs raised?

The dungeons are already too hard, and now they're harder. I'm seriously considering asking for a refund at this rate... >.>


We tend to start at crazy difficulties and pull the challenge down over time. It's better to know what's beyond most players early on rather than hope you're tweaking the right variables to make things more challenging when everyone's already played everything on easy mode so you can't get people to try "the same dungeons" over again.

Things will get easier over time as we get a better feel for the content. DD is a complex game and it'll take time to get it perfect.


The problem with that strategy is that overly difficult dungeons leave players frustrated and reluctant to try again. I've tried to beat creeplight ruins 10 ~ 15 times now with every character and every preparation. It doesn't even matter if I get the right God very early, it just doesn't work.

In every dungeon, the monsters are almost always too spread out. The worst case of this is rock garden - I often have to explore half the map before I'm even level 5. Two bosses, each with a resistance to physical or magical, is hard enough, yet the dungeon itself is designed to punish you unless you use 100% of your resources at 100% efficiency.

The dungeons are much bigger in the new DD. I don't know if that's just because the window is bigger, or because things are bigger (sprites). No matter what, there should be more monsters. At the very least, there should be more monsters in the fringes (level 1 -3 and 8+).
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby flap on Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:10 pm

Relax Herborist... It is the second day of beta testing only, so they are at less than 2% of the process (final release planned in 120 days). So the game is anything but finished, and qcf will tackle issues one after the other. First the main ugly/deadly bugs, then the balance.

That version is not really meant to be entirely playable, and for the next few weeks, consider yourself as a tester rather than a player !
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby Herborist on Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:51 pm

flap wrote:Relax Herborist... It is the second day of beta testing only, so they are at less than 2% of the process (final release planned in 120 days). So the game is anything but finished, and qcf will tackle issues one after the other. First the main ugly/deadly bugs, then the balance.

That version is not really meant to be entirely playable, and for the next few weeks, consider yourself as a tester rather than a player !


I'm relaxed. I'm just expressing my concerns. I don't want this game to come out and do poorly.
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby Carl on Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:02 am

I agree that the dungeons are tough, but I don't think the rock garden/creeplight etc. should be made easier. They are at a nice level to be really challenging and yet solvable if played correctly. My only issue is that we get to them too soon. Keep them as they are, but make us do MUCH more around town in 'normal' dungeons before we're able to become a fully-fledged explorer. We shouldn't even be able to get anyway near them until we've won at least 10 (possible up to 20) stock standard dungeons. Only veterans won't mind the current progression, but that's because they've already played HOURS of normal dungeons getting that experience. I'd hate to see those really challenging dungeons get too easy. It would take away the sense of accomplishment on eventually winning them.
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby flap on Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:25 am

Herborist wrote:I'm relaxed. I'm just expressing my concerns. I don't want this game to come out and do poorly.


Ha, don't worry ! I am sure that we can trust the QCF team to add much more material, and refine it to its best. It is a game crafted with love. But we just need to let them work for a few more months, and let those who don't mind testing unfair and unfinished products give them some valuable feedback. ;)

Also, I do agree with Carl on the matter that veteran of the freeware version have shown how they could solve incredibly difficult challenges. So, it is very likely that some of theses impossible looking dungeons will still be lurking somewhere in the final version. The main question, is how will they bring the new player to that level of skill, while avoiding frustration, and leaving only a feeling of achievement.
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby Nandrew on Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:52 am

flap wrote: The main question, is how will they bring the new player to that level of skill, while avoiding frustration, and leaving only a feeling of achievement.


The community has already inspired some amazing ideas in that regard, and we're working on adding a few new features that were completely unthought-of before the beta release. Hooray for player feedback!
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby Galefury on Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:20 pm

FWIW I found creeplight ruins pretty easy, beating them without preparations on my second try using a human priest of the glowing guardian. I did see the level during the E3 beta, but didn't beat it then. Knowing the specialties of the level sure helped though. I am a very experienced DD player, so the level being easy to me doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. I would have even beaten the level on my first try but I misclicked and died. An undo button would be quite helpful (but would go against all things roguelike).
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Re: All you're doing is making the game harder...

Postby Herborist on Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:50 pm

Galefury wrote:FWIW I found creeplight ruins pretty easy, beating them without preparations on my second try using a human priest of the glowing guardian. I did see the level during the E3 beta, but didn't beat it then. Knowing the specialties of the level sure helped though. I am a very experienced DD player, so the level being easy to me doesn't mean it's easy for everyone. I would have even beaten the level on my first try but I misclicked and died. An undo button would be quite helpful (but would go against all things roguelike).


Where you using the broken glowing guardian, or the right one?
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